Why do our adult children do this to us?

Polly, it seems that now is not the time to change things, rather, accept the current situation for now.

Remain a friendly and happy mum, there in the background, willing to help if asked. She may well come back to you, later on.

The pain will be far less when you think of her as unwell, working through her own problems and adjusting to being a mother herself.

She feels unable to cope with any extra stress (like being a good, even average daughter) at this time. Therefore, she rejects the role - and you.

Never imagine that it is, in any way, your fault.

Polly you say that your other daughter doesn’t know why your DD is like she is.
Sit her down and ask her to tell you truthfully what she thinks is going on, I’m sure if she and her sister talk that she will know.

PetitFromage, good advice that can benefit anybody in a similar situation.

HolyHannah

riskybusiness -- Polly75's daughter is an adult in her own right. She is married and has a child of her own. When you reached those mile-stones in your life I'm sure you considered yourself as an adult and expected to be treated as such.

Likewise AC want to be treated as equal mature adults like you did at those times. Parents that believe, past a time when it's appropriate, that their children are still 'less' mature/not adult enough is going to lead to a relationship breakdown.

So long as a 'parent' holds that perception of their AC, they will consciously or sub-consciously behave in that way... Thinking they know 'better' on every aspect of their ADULT child's life. Maybe the parent DOES. The AC doesn't care. They know that their parent didn't get everything 'right'/correct so now it's their turn to do things "their way".

A good grand-parent will support their child and their partner in how they choose to raise THEIR children, the grand-children -- regardless of their personal feelings on those choices. If the grand-parent insists they know better and subvert/undermine the parents wishes? No contact is likely.

If an AC's "breaking point" ends in them swearing or saying "mean things" to their parent(s) the 'super adult' should be able to shrug that off. I've heard of parent's hitting their "breaking point" and slapping their AC and have that minimized, but a adult parent can't handle a few swear words from their 'children'? FFS ignore the swear words and listen to the rest of the words. The 'kid' has reached "breaking point" and if you want a relationship with them and their child, your grand-child it's the grand-parent who needs to change their perception.

And displaying that language to any person not just your Mother displays your lacking of mentality of adult hood. She needs to grow up. If she doesnt want to have her mother in her life tell her but dont leave her hanging on treating her like an object with no value. She is far from grown up!

Why are people in this forum always arguing with each other. Just put your own piint across do you not realise how damaging it is to members, not to mention the impact it has on decisions the OP may take. I see posting a question on here to be like asking fir suggestioned dropped in a hat not a bunch of white rabbits having fur fights for thier own needs for thier suggestions to be superior.
Someone doesnt like what i posted move on my post wasnt and isnt fir you its that simple and how selfish and needy must you be to think you can even make suggestions to wipe out suggestions directed at the OP that choice is thiers and thiers alone. This is not your thread to control if anything it shows your need for control. Your inability not to allow anothers right to other minds no matter thier reply the OP has a right to read them on the merits that they connect with the OP not you.

Riskybusiness you just pulled up what another member said but I agree that posters should be able to make their own comments (within gransnet guidelines) and not have them argued against.

OP asked why adult children estrange.

There is always a reason, whether or not the estranged agrees with it.

Making blanket statements like "you've definitely done nothing wrong" is probably the most harmful sort of comment we get around here because it lessens the chances of the estrangement ever ending.

There is always the support thread for those who just want blanket support and no feedback

I know what you mean RiskyB. I tend to stay off the estrangement threads for the most part. There's a lot of invested emotion and hurt on both sides, with each side seeming to feel they need to blame the other. I think the objective truth is that sometimes the fault is the parent, sometimes it's the adult child and sometimes it's a bit of both.

In the case of this OP, something has changed. If she thinks hard, and with feedback here, she might get an idea what that is and hopefully be able to move forward.

To be clear, I stay off them because I find the back and forth draining for myself. Not because people have different opinions. Different ideas are always interesting to explore.

Estrangement is indeed painful for both sides in most cases so it is important to work out what the problems are, you can't change others, only yourself but sometimes changing you changes them too

Starblaze

Riskybusiness you just pulled up what another member said but I agree that posters should be able to make their own comments (within gransnet guidelines) and not have them argued against.

OP asked why adult children estrange.

There is always a reason, whether or not the estranged agrees with it.

Making blanket statements like "you've definitely done nothing wrong" is probably the most harmful sort of comment we get around here because it lessens the chances of the estrangement ever ending.

There is always the support thread for those who just want blanket support and no feedback

Sorry... where did I state the OP as a parent has done nothing wrong?

A suggestion that someone concentrate on bettering themselves and gaining strength to be thier for thier grandchildren has caused so much striff. Ive been her a few days but its not the place for me.

Riskybusiness where did I say you said that? Just a general comment apart from the bit I specifically tagged you in

And displaying that language to any person not just your Mother displays your lacking of mentality of adult hood. She needs to grow up

This supports exactly what HolyHannah is saying about viewing someone as a “lesser adult”.

Why does swearing indicate a lacking mentality of adulthood?

Just because you personally don’t like it, doesn’t mean the person using it is immature and needs to grow up.

I think that adults that are offended by swearing are immature, actually. It is adult language after all.

There are many reasons a person swears - one of them being frustration when they have reached their boiling point. It is quite normal, not immature, and helps release frustration.

I found this quite interesting:

Studies show that when you put people in stressful situations and tell them they cannot swear, their performance goes down and their experience of stress is much greater

Polly I hope that you can take some of the wise advice on here and use it to decide the best way forward.

Swearing definitely does not equal bad person, they are quite often just a quicker way of expressing a feeling that means the same thing.

F off

Versus

I just want you to get away from me and I don't want to see you or hear anything you have to say to me right now because I have had enough of you.

We know of one thing op could have done better and it is a confirmed pain point for her daughter- OP wants to be accommodated when she is ready to visit her gd but it is not convenient for her daughter.
Make the same mistake plenty of times knowing it bothers the other person and the issue becomes bigger than the popping in itself.

We also know OP was welcome to babysit but that changed.

We also know there was a divorce in the family and it has to affect her daughter more than OP realizes.

OP says her daughter has been saying nasty things since daughter was 16, so daughter and mother have not had a good relationship for a long time, way before she found her partner

There are plenty of why's with the little information we have.

I did wonder, from reading Polly's posts, if maybe her daughter might feel that she wants to be overly involved in her life. That maybe Polly has expectations of more frequent visits and more input than her daughter wants. Does Polly have a need to be needed, or to be the matriarch in the family? Something for Polly to reflect on for herself.

Polly, you did say that you tell your daughter that you miss your GD. Does she know you miss her too or is it all about the GD? When a GP only wants the children and everyone else better let them have that and get out of the way, it's pointless to make the effort towards them. It's just stressful, interferes with the rhythm of your life and day, and is just too much effort.

There has obviously been a breakdown in communication here, there has been contact though and I’d implore Polly to look back over any texts or emails from her daughter if she has any, to solve this issue she needs to first recognise what it actually is.
I’m not sure how well this will be received on this thread but I found the “missing missing reasons” very insightful as to how many EP’s process the rejection associated with estrangement. Can I please caveat this by saying many, not all - I’m aware from GN threads that there are a variety of circumstances which lead to estrangement. However, in this particular case recognising the chasm between the actual message being delivered vs the limited info actually getting through OP because of the harsh delivery may help.

This is the link to the page I mentioned earlier for anyone interested
www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html

"And displaying that language to any person not just your Mother displays your lacking of mentality of adult hood. She needs to grow up. If she doesnt want to have her mother in her life tell her but dont leave her hanging on treating her like an object with no value. She is far from grown up!"

I swear like a sailor, especially in private. If someone cannot handle a few 'adult words' like d**k then I doubt the person is going to be open to honestly listening to anything.

Taking swearing out of it, if an AC says anything 'hurtful' towards the parent the reaction is much the same. I suspect the swearing is just a red-herring excuse to not listen to the rest of what was said...

I had many such conversations with my own 'mom' before No Contact.

mom -- "Hannah what's wrong?"
me -- explains
mom -- "But I don't understand why that is an issue..."
me -- explains different way
mom -- "That's not fair. I don't want to do that..."
me -- "I don't care... That's how it is."
mom -- "Well I just don't 'get' what your 'problem' is..."
me -- "FFS I've already explained twice!"
mom -- "Why are you getting upset and swearing? That's rude and immature."

So 'mom' can be rude and immature by not taking in an adult conversation BUT if I get to a breaking point with her inability to comprehend, I am the immature one? Eff THAT.

Lolo81 -- Issendai's work has been quoted here many times.

EP'S and EGP's can rarely read her articles.

They say too many 'untruths' that EP's "never hear" from other EP's and it is too hurtful to have such lies examined. Or something similar...

The person who made this thread appears to be nothing like your mother, though, any more than you are exactly the same as anyone else.

MissAdventure -- My reply to was riskybusiness around the subject of swearing and maturity.

Is “But X isn’t your mother” such a stock response to HolyHannah now that it doesn’t even matter if it is relevant or not?

Well, it seems the most reasonable response to me.
You can, of course, put your own personal slant on it.

Well, it seems the most reasonable response to me

So HolyHannah addressing another poster on the subject of swearing and maturity elicits a response of “But the OP isn’t your mother”? She wasn’t talking about the OP or her situation. How is it the most reasonable?

You can, of course, put your own personal slant on it

I don’t understand. HolyHannah was addressing another poster on the subject of swearing and maturity which again, had nothing to do with the OP or her situation. I haven’t put a slant on anything.

It is an incredibly dismissive thing to say to her and I see it done often.