SUPPORT for all living with estrangement

Sleep is good PFwhen life gets too much to cope with, the need for sleep is the brain's way of shutting us down so that we don't have to think about all the difficulties that we're currently being presented with.

You don't have to respond dear friend, you just need to know that we are here for you.

PF, I understand exactly how you feel. I am not totally estranged , but I think it might be easier if I was. I’m not bad enough to get rid of completely, but am just supposed to fit in with the odd fleeting meetings which I now dread. I find it so hard now seeing my friends with their happy families, I stop in more and more. I do hope you can concentrate on the two lovely daughters you have and that you are wanted very much, that must tell you that you don’t deserve the way one daughter treats you.?

PF, what can I add to the loving and eloquent posts above?
Please remember do whatever feels right for you.
But most of all do not feel guilty over anything youve said or done.
You are in my thoughts.

Thank you everybody so much for taking the trouble to post and for all of your wonderful support. I think that everything is quite fragile right now, so it is probably a case of stepping back, taking deep breaths, and trying to navigate a way forward.

I really don't want to reopen old wounds, but they do need to be healed and I feel that the infection needs to be treated at source, or I risk being wounded again, and I am too weak to cope with it.

Sparkling, I so identify with what you are saying. It is emotionally exhausting being semi-estranged. I hope that we can fix things but I don't want to be bullied or used. I would like my DGC in my life, of course I would, not least because they are part of DH, but I don't want them to be used to manipulate me for financial gain, as has happened previously (at least that is my interpretation but, as my daughter rightly tells me, there are two sides to every story).

I am maybe one inch off my rock bottom, which came over the weekend, when I gazed into the abyss and it looked quite tempting. I have my lovely other daughters, who are also struggling with their grief, I have my dog and my daughter's cat, who shares his favours and likes to snuggle under the duvet with me! Blueberry, you are so right about needing a furry friend! I also have a wonderful group of friends including all of you lovely people on here, so I am fortunate really. I just need to realise that, but I guess that it is still early days. DD1 can't hurt me any more because nobody can.

What I do know is that DH loved all of his daughters, had come to terms with everything, and would have hated me to hold a grudge or prolong the rift. It's not that I want retribution or to hurt her, quite the opposite, I still love her, but the hurt runs very deep and we have never talked it through, I have never understood, so the trust is hard to get back, which makes everything complicated.

I started bereavement counselling on Monday, which was helpful.

Petitfromage when my husband died my heart got broken and has never healed. What my son did bent it a bit but could not break it. It's the same with you. Your husband dieing broke your heart , your daughter has just bent it. But you have 2 daughters who love and care for you. Concentrate on them.

I have a wonderful daughter,son in law and 2 grandson's. I love and care for them as they do me.

My son and daughter in law don't want me and my 3 grandson's have no choice. But with the help of Smiles and everyone else here I have come to terms with that. I don't hate them don't need or want that in my life. But will not live with what if's. I do not want to live my life like that. I will not wish for something I can't have.

The only thing I would wish for if it was possible is to have my husband back fit and healthy. But I can't . But I cherish the love and life we had. I still love him as much today as ever.

Your husband loved all his daughters but did the one you are having problems with love him? It's a hard question given time when you are stronger you need to ask yourself. With the help of counselling you will find your answer.

I am glad you found counselling helpful . It wasn't for me. Had to learn a lot of things the hard way by myself. Which made me stronger. But I was younger than you are now.

You need to save your energy for those who you love . Grieving is exhausting . Look after yourself. You are not alone. ?

Horrible day to day. Mammogram this morning; must have been invented by a man church finance meeting this afternoon and PCC meeting this evening.

Maybe we should move our lodge further away from where we live as me thinks we're too convenient.

I understand what you say about counselling Whiff. It's not for everyone and when it comes to estrangement, we learned the hard way. Grieving is as you say exhausting but sadly necessary.

Smiles I remember my 1st mammogram at 50 the machine was large and really hurt had 2 bruised lines across my breasts where it press. Also my poor nipple got manhandled because they didn't get a clear picture. The machines got smaller over the years. My last one in November only pinched a bit.

It's lovely you have an escape not far from where you live. Make the best of the good weather while you can. ?

Mind you when I lie on my back my boobs disappear. ?

I started bereavement counselling on Monday, which was helpful

PF I am so pleased to hear that.

I now have to tuck my boobs in with my socks when I get dressed. ?

Surely not Rhinestone.

I have to say is wasn't quite as bad as my last one Whiff but still very uncomfortable and they're asking a lot aren't they, when they say "now just relax"!!

Smiles it like all tests they always say relax ,it's ok for some things. Remember them saying relax and you will feel a scratch as years ago I had to have a spine tap done. Ouch !

I had one of those years ago, it's horrible isn't it, it feels as if your life source us being drained out of your body. I was only 13 or 14 at the time.

The first one didn't 'work' and when they told me I had to have it done again I locked myself in the loo.

I don't know if they have this available in your area, but when I had to have a mammogram done a few years ago, I was sent to a facility that does exclusively breast imaging. (The doctor found a lump during a breast exam; that's why I had to have imaging. It ended up just being a cyst.) I actually didn't find it uncomfortable at all. The staff were fantastic.

I dread them, when your well endowed and your breast is almost ironed flat, it hurts, I wonder something doesn't snap.

Sparkling the boobs in the family missed me completely. My mom, nan ,daughter and nieces inherited them. I'm a classic pear shape. Losing 7st they were the first things to go.

When my mom got breast cancer the first time she had a mastectomy. Made me decide if I ever got breast cancer I would want a reconstruction . It never bothered after my hysterectomy not having anything inside. But I do like having boobs.

Made me laugh after mom's operation she weighted her other boob to see how much weight she lost. My dad just had a silly grin on his face. Thanks for bringing that memory back.

That's what I love about being here someone talks about something and it's sparks things I hadn't thought about for years some good some bad. But it's lovely remembering. ?

Morning all. Sorry, no energy to say much but thinking of you all in your trials and tribulations.
Really glad the counselling helped PF - I know you have had some awful mountains to climb and now you've got a huge one, but one day you will get there and find joy at the summit. x
My heart goes out to you too Whiff.
I hope you're feeling relieved after your rotten day smiles.

You know reading this post reminds me how much rotten stuff women have to put up with. Men too, I know, just different stuff.

Very true Sparkling. At my last mammogram the lady said 'this is not the time for a large and firm bosom' how right she was.

Sorry you're still feeling unwell hugshelp. We do have rather a lot of "rotten stuff" to put up with don't we but it helps being able to laugh at some of it with the friends we've made here.

Hugshelp sorry you are so unwell. Hope you feel more like yourself soon. ?

Hugshelp hope you are feeling better.

Petitfromage hope you are sleeping better. Take everything in your own time.

Both of you hope you are being kind to yourselves and eating and drinking. You both need the energy .

Had a wobble yesterday afternoon . I was happily cross stitching and watching a film when a wave of sadness and loss washed over me. And just wanted to see my son. Next thing I was in tears. Don't know why it happened as I do counted cross stitch I fine it relaxing but you have to concentrate to make sure you get the stitch count right and using the right colour.

I let the tears flow for a while then gave myself a talking to. All the while I was looking at the photo of my husband. I thought I was doing well. I suppose I expect to much of myself. It's the not knowing if they are ok. If they had caught Covid at anytime and did my eldest son get into the school of their choice. I know what school they wanted him to go too as the nursery he went to was near the school.

I know it's silly but I wonder if my son has given me a single thought in all this time or has he just erased me from his memory.

He's a really good gardener like his dad was and when I was planting out my veggies on Saturday I wanted to show him what I had done. So stupid.

Enough of that I and looking after my daughter's youngest this morning while she has her hair cut. Had mine cut on Monday. Had a good 4" lopped off. The saloon I use is very Covid safe. All PPE, temperature check ,contact details in the book, disposable gowns and no dry cuts. They follow all the rules. They only have one customer at a time. There was only the stylist and receptionist there. Funny how a simple thing like a hair cut can lift your spirits.

Have a good day everyone whatever you are doing. ?

"a wave of sadness and loss washed over me" that's how I describe it Whiff like a wave because it happens and then the wave goes back out again, until the next time.

You are doing well and to think that you'll never experience a wave again is asking too much of yourself. You may not but you just don't know until it happens again, more than likely taking you by complete surprise, just like this one did.

As you all know, I was 60 a couple of weeks agoand today our lovely girls popped round with the present they'd organised and had been waiting to arrive.

I was totally blown away by a pair of silver earrings with our gorgeous dogs engraved on each. They are so beautiful and I'm thrilled.

Newbie here, not new to estrangement unfortunately.

I have been estranged from my daughter for about 3 years and grandchildren for the same, sad story but familiar to many. Involved us having to care for the children via social services, but them not having put anything formal in place, daughter unstable due to drug use, yet she took the children back unexpectedly, social services then claimed that they had no real record of the issues or that they'd directed us to have the grandchildren. It was for a couple of months but we had a lot of contact with them before this also.

In short we felt we were shafted, daughter and her boyfriend stopped us from seeing grandchildren, social services didn't really help at all, it was a huge disappointment, but we did go to court and try to stop the obvious trauma which we knew was being inflicted on our grandchildren. I don't agree that people shouldn't do this it is entirely up to them, but in our case unfortunately although cafcass were supportive and encouraging to both us and daughter, the court referred it back to social services, and well... you can imagine it was a massive change of approach. Records have disappeared, notes went astray, they claimed daughter had never had the issues we had described and that they took on board initially, take it from me, it is a gamble taking the legal route, grandparents have no legal rights, we were given permission to apply with no safeguarding issues but things went wrong when the case was passed back to social services, who did the assessment and basically said it should be left to our daughter to deal with, meaning it won't be!

Its incredibly sad for the children, and I don't know if there is going to be a sea change in the law but I doubt it will change in the near future, but I do regularly write to my MP and am active on twitter about this issue, if it has shown me anything it is a huge eye opener and I my view of hierarchical systems such as court and organisations that are supposed to help has changed massively.

And for me I have been using the time to do lots of work on myself, mainly because I have had to cope with the huge loss of our beloved daughter and grandchildren, but also because I had to feel I was doing something positive with it all.
We have tried periodically to send things to our daughter (she always takes money but sends presents for the children back to us), and tried to reach out, I normally get an angry response just saying that we are being reported to the police. And I think reaching out is futile now, they are very stuck in their hatred and really they always have been ever since the grandchildren had to stay with us. And there comes a time when you have to remove yourself and give in, just because it is too painful to hold on.
I feel l now owe it to myself and to my other children and family to live the best life I can and to wait until the grandchildren come to us, or our daughter has some sort of life change, but I am not sitting waiting or expecting this any longer. I just recognise that just this time I have to admit defeat and back out gracefully.

Smiles thank you. It's was like the wave that comes over me sometimes when I miss my husband. I know I expect to much of myself. Still grieving for my husband and it's been 17 years. Missing my son and grandson's is like a beveveament but they are still alive.

What a lovely surprise for you . Glad your daughter's made a fuss of you and you had a lovely time. The earnings sound lovely. Pity it's not the old days when women get their pensions at 60. If you lived up here you would get a free bus/ local train pass. Men and women get then at 60. I can go as far as Chester on the train and it's free. I had planned on traveling all over last year but Covid put a hold on it. Hopefully before long I will be doing it. The numbers are coming done again . As they went high because of the Indian variant up here.

Nana49 sorry for all your troubles but your last paragraph is the best thing for you and your family. Luckily I don't have to worry about my grandson's as my son and daughter in law are brilliant parents just turned out a rotten son and daughter in law.

You will get plenty of help and support here. This thread has been a life line for me. Wouldn't have been able to cope without it. Smiles has made this a safe haven for us. ?

A warm welcome to our support thread Nana. There are always mixed emotions when we get a new poster. Sadness for the pain we know you have been and are going through, as well as being pleased that you've found us and have been able to share.

You really have been through the mill, I am sorry. As many of us have learned through experience there's no shame in admitting defeat, backing off and moving on indeed it's the only way of dealing with this long term.

The physical and emotional damage of being unable to do so is frightening. It's truly heartbreaking to face the fact that our own child doesn't wasn't us around any more.

Thanks Whiff. I refer to our girls as our girls because from the day we moved to our new home and they introduced themselves because we're neighbours, they've been a breath of fresh air and have helped to fill the void that our estrangement and our DS living in Aus. has left.

When you've been fortunate to have shared your life with a wonderful husband and father there, cannot be a time when you'll ever stop grieving for their loss.

I arrive back here once more ladies and hang my head a bit in shame mainly because I have not even posted a "Hello" to you all on this new thread and that is a bit rude of me.
My reasons for non post mainly are that I have been carrying
such a lot of sadness around with me over different events with my D and GC I just could not bring myself to get into details how low this has been making me feel and if I didn't
write about it then I could fool myself that nothing was too bad and just keep going hoping for miraculous improvements.
Life just keeps bringing stark realities to face and sometimes that is just what has to be done. After trying to continue with a completely one sided relationship on my part and limited response from my daughter I carried on
and with my GSs birthday last Sunday I bought him gifts and also a lovely cake, all the various treats I buy (sweet stuff)
and two large freshly topped pizzas as I know the children like them.
I had no expectations at all and did not know if I would get asked in or not. I was to find other problems about getting asked in, the door was opened by a man who proceeded to tell me my daughter had gone to the shops. I walked straight in towards the living room asking at the same time where are the children? He told me they are upstairs playing although the eldest one had heard the door and she appeared calling hello to me. I was aghast that this man was in her house alone with the children she knows she is already under strict
parenting plan and S.S order and still she carries on like that is nothing. I stayed in the house waiting for her return and when she came back her only reasoning to me was to say
she only wanted a quiet day and told me not to make a fuss about the birthday and she would call me the next day as maybe she would do a cake and sandwich for my GSs birthday. I was then more or less dismissed as she said she wanted to cook some food. I wanted to shout and scream at her and wanted to know why her children had been left with this man who I believe she has known about a month but I thought better of it particularly since my eldest GC was still downstairs.

To get to the point of things during the week for the first time in a long time I took the decision to call her social worker as concerns about her children being left had to be a priority. The SW was helpful and took details and I was told my D had not told anyone about this friendship/relationship
and as they were working with her the children were always there main focus. He told me he would be speaking to my D
and that he would phone me back Friday (today) although he has not as yet.

This morning my D phoned me as she has been contacted by the SW. She began the conversation in a hostile and abusive manner (which I expected from her) and I thought she would then put the phone down but instead she asked me a few questions. I was glad she wanted to hear something from me and I felt empowered to be able to say that in trying to keep some kind of relationship with her I had not ben able to have any opinions or speak my mind and mostly I could not even have a voice and mostly she just liked to keep me silenced. She began laughing and then told me just go to hell although I managed to finish off by telling her that I have finished trying for any kind of relationship
and it is best for me to keep away which then she told me to
f**k off but I had said all I needed to say so I put the phone down any way.

So ladies Happy Estrangement here I come although anything is better than trying to be around your own child when they tell you how disgusting they think you are and what a waste of space you are.
Actually I don't even feel bad about her phone call I think I am past caring.
Going to leave this post for now as I know it is getting long,
it is a nice day here today and so I am getting into the garden to do a bit of weeding.
All take care.