Why do I torture myself

Feel free to moan away! Perhaps take comfort from the fact he hasn't blocked you on Twitter, so must want you to get the updates, even if he can't bring himself to deliver them in person. I don't know what caused the estrangement, so couldn't offer any advice, but if you are on Twitter, does he follow you? If so you could mention your operation and worries in general. He might see it.

Moan away Elless …..a lot of us have got one of those in the family.. There’s ‘outside influence’ I guess, like in my sons case. One of my my d.I.l. is so difficult. I have to keep asking to see the grandchildren. I texted them a few days back, asking if I can go over. No reply. She wants my son for herself…
Concentrate on your operation. Writing a letter to him will bring stir lots of pent up emotions and you really don’t want to upset your equilibrium. Leave it till after the op. Good luck

I agree with crazyH Elless try and just concentrate on your forthcoming operation and taking care of yourself.

The problem with writing a letter is the anxiety of waiting and wondering if you'll get a response, and if so, what that response will be.

B9exchange's suggestion is a good one, if he is following you on twitter he'll know you're awaiting surgery and that may prompt him to get in touch. That said, will you be anxiously awaiting a response and be understandably hurt if you don't get one.

Mr. S. had health problems for 2 years before finally getting surgery at the beginning of last year. We know our ES would have known through his brother, but he never contacted his dad, which upset him greatly.

I hope everything goes well with your operation.

I am so sorry for you and the situation you are in. We do see our DS and his family we get on fine. However our Dil can be rather awkward at times. I have had to bite my tongue many times, trust me it's difficult for me to do.
Concentrate on yourself plan what you will be able to do physically after your operation. Do you have friends who can be on hand to help you out?
Regarding your son I don't know what to advise but my heart goes out to you x

Good luck with your operation elless
I understand how hard it is not to look and be interested and beat yourself up, like picking a sore spot or biting nails.
I hope perhaps after your op there may be some opportunities to open up dialect with your son
Good luck with both things

Thank you everyone, feel better now

Good luck Ellen’s with your operation. So sorry you have this heartache but try if you can to focus on getting yourself well, put the rest on hold for a while.

crazyH

Moan away Elless …..a lot of us have got one of those in the family.. There’s ‘outside influence’ I guess, like in my sons case. One of my my d.I.l. is so difficult. I have to keep asking to see the grandchildren. I texted them a few days back, asking if I can go over. No reply. She wants my son for herself…
Concentrate on your operation. Writing a letter to him will bring stir lots of pent up emotions and you really don’t want to upset your equilibrium. Leave it till after the op. Good luck

Instead of asking to see the grandchildren, why not ask her to do something - like take the children to the park or on a walk together and grab a coffee after? Probably the best way to get 'in' with the GC at this stage is to build a relationship with their mother too. I had a MIL who wanted to take over the GC and clearly wanted me to just get out of her way. No thanks. At that time and age, me and the children were a package deal. Not saying you do that, just an idea for you.

OP, I agree with just focusing on the surgery for now. One thing at a time.

Probably the best way to get 'in' with the GC at this stage is to build a relationship with their mother too

Sadly that only works if both parties want to build a relationship. From what Elless says she is not seeing her son, and hasn't met her grandchild. We know nothing about the DIL atall.

Elless do concentrate on yourself at the moment. Cafeaulait is right, one thing at a time

I agree with CrazyH it's "outside influence".

It is a known fact that the woman who has constant sexual influences him enormously . Pillow talk. Samson and Delilah.

Caleo

I agree with CrazyH it's "outside influence".

It is a known fact that the woman who has constant sexual influences him enormously . Pillow talk. Samson and Delilah.

Oh please. Men are able to think beyond sex, or find someone else to have that kind of relationship with. Men do not have stronger sex drives than women or lose all sense for sex. I think more highly of men in general than that. That kind of thinking ceased long ago.

Elles try to take comfort that your son is happy and a good father. That's what we wanted raising children to be happy and independant.

Has he told you anything he wants or needs for you to be a part of his life again?

Maybe you could look into therapy or counselling to help you deal with the emotions that are coming up when you look at his public exploits.

I hope your surgery goes well and you should definitely focus your energy on your recovery.

CafeAuLait, , I have tried that, done that, walks, meals together, just d.I.l., kids and myself, I have cooked and taken the food over, because I know it’s easier for them with 2 little ones…..BUT something has derailed the relationship and I don’t know what. I have racked my brains ….

Hi everyone, I don't want to approach DiL because I think she is part of all this, before they married she knew I thought the world of her, I told her if I'd had a daughter I would want her to be like her. Her mother (son's MiL) purposely walks past (and pauses) in front of my house with my grandson because she looks after him two days a week. Unfortunately I can see both of their houses from mine so I can't avoid them.

That's such a cruel thing to do Elless. Our ES walked past our house on more than one occasion with our GC who we weren't allowed to see. That was one of the reasons we moved away in the end.

Oh please. Men are able to think beyond sex, or find someone else to have that kind of relationship with. Men do not have stronger sex drives than women or lose all sense for sex. I think more highly of men in general than that. That kind of thinking ceased long ago.

except it hasn’t. It’s right here.

My husbands poor relationship is my fault, even though I’ve always encouraged him to reach out. She kept burning bridges and insulting our relationship, blaming me for his choices.

They are no longer close. But it’s my fault. A man wouldn’t dare choose that on his own.

A “magic vagina” is often blamed these days.

magic vagina is often blamed these days

It's impossible to generalize Summerlove.
Your experience is just that, only yours.

Magic vagina lol

Nobody can make anybody do anything, with or w/o the sexual organ mentioned above

crazyH

CafeAuLait, , I have tried that, done that, walks, meals together, just d.I.l., kids and myself, I have cooked and taken the food over, because I know it’s easier for them with 2 little ones…..BUT something has derailed the relationship and I don’t know what. I have racked my brains ….

If you've tried all that, it sounds like you've made a good effort. In the end, if you feel you have done your best, sometimes we have to be content with that. It could be that DIL just isn't very interested in a relationship. It might not be personal either. Maybe you haven't done anything? If you have, it's also on your son and DIL to communicate, especially your son. You're not a mind reader.

I know I'm not a perfect person but I feel happy that I made all reasonable efforts with my MIL. Sometimes we have to settle for that.

Cafeaulait - I will go so far as to say, my son is to blame. We had a 'fall out' few years ago. It was a silly argument, so silly, I can't even remember what it was all about, but he said the nastiest things, the one phrase I remember, because it hurt me the most was "I don't trust you" or something to that effect - (the trigger escapes me or I probably have blocked it). I remember coming on here and getting great support and comfort from Smileless and other kind ladies. Anyway since then, I decided to forgive and forget, mainly for the sake of the little ones, but things have never been the same. As you say, it could be that she doesn't want a relationship. She is an only child and very close to her mother. Btw this is not the first time - we have been close to the edge.
Sorry to go on, for some reason, can't sleep ....

Namsnanny

^magic vagina is often blamed these days^

It's impossible to generalize Summerlove.
Your experience is just that, only yours.

No, it’s quite easy actually. Even on gransnet, people often blame the female partners for the problems.

My experience is just mine, but I know I’m not the only one who has ever been blamed simply by being a partner to a man.

crazyH

Cafeaulait - I will go so far as to say, my son is to blame. We had a 'fall out' few years ago. It was a silly argument, so silly, I can't even remember what it was all about, but he said the nastiest things, the one phrase I remember, because it hurt me the most was "I don't trust you" or something to that effect - (the trigger escapes me or I probably have blocked it). I remember coming on here and getting great support and comfort from Smileless and other kind ladies. Anyway since then, I decided to forgive and forget, mainly for the sake of the little ones, but things have never been the same. As you say, it could be that she doesn't want a relationship. She is an only child and very close to her mother. Btw this is not the first time - we have been close to the edge.
Sorry to go on, for some reason, can't sleep ....

Post as much as you want to. Maybe it will help. :-) Did your son say why he didn't trust you? Maybe during that argument he clued you in to his reasons, even if you disagree with the truth of what he said?

You are wise to consider your DIL's background and what her normal is in regard to family. I know my MIL's normal was to turn her own children over to their maternal grandmother for regular care (not sure about paternal, which is what she is). My normal is that I never knew any grandparents, so had no expectations of grandparents or a specific role. Big conflict of expectations there. I don't think my own mother likes my independence from grandparents that much, but that's a situation she created.

"Even on Gransnet, people often blame the female partners for the problems" and when that is their experience Summerlove why shouldn't they?

As you say "My experience is just mine"; my experience is just mine so when I say that our ES's wife has used coercive control/emotional blackmail which has resulted in our estrangement, who are you or anyone else to say differently?

How would you feel if what you say about your experience was derided and invalidated by others?

Our ES's wife has a history of going no contact with her own family including her parents, who have been 'in' and 'out' on more than one occasion.

I don't find the term 'magic vagina' amusing Hithere and neither would you I'm sure, if your family had been torn apart following a much loved son's relationship with his wife.

I've always said that ultimately it is our son who is to blame crazyH. We are his parents and if his wife didn't want anything more to do with us, there was no reason for him to too.

He once told his brother that he'd told her "I've given up everything for you". Whether or not he was unable or unwilling to think for himself, we'll never know.

that should have read there was no reason for him not too.