Access denied

Any chance you could apologise and try to smooth things out?

There are lots of threads here on estrangement, but one that keeps going and is helpful for people is called 'support for those affected by estrangement' (something like that, anyway)

The people on it don't have any magic answers, but its a good place for them to talk.

Hopefully your situation will resolve before it gets to the point of absolute no contact.

Do you and your son often fall out, or is this out of the blue?

Hi Missadventure,
I have written to my son and asked to meet up for a chat. But he flatly refuses. My son and I have never had an argument before in our lives. I don’t recognise him anymore from the son I knew. He has changed so much since he met his wife. I do so hope things can be resolved and I will certainly investigate “estrangement” Thank you.

Hi Sadfella take a look at the 'support for those living with estrangement', thread in the estrangement forum.

I post there regularly and it might help you to read about others whose situation is similar to your own.

Back to your post, there really is nothing you can do until your son is prepared to talk to you. I'm so sorry but that's the sad reality.

What struck me in your post was you saying that your ex wife has been told not to give you any info. and that she is scared of being treated the same way.

I wonder if like you, your ex has seen a discernible change in your son since he married. How did you find out about the birth of your GS? Did your ex tell you, if so maybe that has annoyed your son and his wife and that's why she worries about the security of her own relationship.

Again, I'm so sorry. We have been estranged from our son and only GC for nearly 7 years so I understand how painful this is for you.

I managed to speak to my wife. She was panic stricken that my son would find out she had spoken to me.. I knew they were expecting a baby because my son told me in February. Then claimed that I didn’t care on next contact via text and has been impossible to reach since. When he spoke to me last on the phone in February. He was very tearful and his last words to me where “I love you dad”

Hi, Sadfella- Would you mind sharing what the falling out was about?

Being denied access can come as a shock- And it's not uncommon to take for granted that one day someone talks to you like they usually do and then the next day not-

We all changed to some degree when we married and when our children marry it only stands to reason that they will change too-

Our world view shifted yet again when we became parents- And again it only stands to reason that our children's will too when they become parents-

Maybe your son needs enough space to be his own man, a new man, a husband and father- And wherever it is you fit into the comings and goings of his life in the future, God willing, it might be wise to first repair your relationship with him- Making that relationship your first priority and not having access to your new grandson- Doing so, I think, could potentially make your first meeting with the child so much more meaningful than having access-

The very worst part is not knowing what you have done wrong but can you really think of nothing you could have done to upset him You say you ‘fell out’ so presumably that’s the key to it all something was said (maybe taken the wrong way) that has made this grow feet
If your ex wife is so afraid too there must be something going on ?
Although it would be wise to let it lie for a bit the longer the time left the bigger the chasm gets
I hope you can find a way forward with this

Sadfella I'm sorry you're in this position, but I'm really glad you had the courage to come and talk about it.

It's so easy to forget that men suffer too, because they usually handle things differently.

Your son does seem very angry at the moment. So IMV he's not going to come around quickly.

As Smileless said there is very little you can do whilst he feels this strongly.

In you shoes I would try to contact him one last time.

Preferably a very short letter. Saying you accept he doesn't want to see you. That you can see xxxxxxx has hurt him, (if you actually know what did upset him of course), and you would like to straighten everything out with him if he wants to, when he wants to.

At least you know you tried.

Don't force anything, or you will be tarred with the label of a narcissist!!

I've been estranged from my AC and GC for a while now, but I have no real answers for you I afraid.

Hi Sadfella just wondered how you're feeling today.

For your ex wife to have been panic stricken at the thought of your son finding out she spoke to you is worrying. I think Namsnanny's suggestion is worth thinking about.

You could write a general letter ensuring that you don't let slip anything you could only have known from your ex wife. Saying you're sorry for the fall out and hope to be able to see him at some point in the future. I wouldn't mention your GC for now.

Do come back and talk to us if you feel the need.

Its very "new" (relatively) so that is reason to hope that it may not be permanant.

What was the tearful conversation in february about?

I would advise against persisting in making contact if you have been told he doesnt want you to.

Continuing to contact someone who doesnt want you to contact them can be seen as harassment.

If its space he wants. Give it to him. Hard as it may be.

It could still prove to be short lived

I dont know what your ex wife is hoping to achieve and if I were you I would avoid talking to her about it

What did she hope to achieve?
Telling you "they dont want me to give you info" serves no purpose but to upset you and potentially upset them.

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Above reported

Toddle off josie
Do come back sadfella and give an update perhaps things have improved ?

@Sadfella

My guess is, your son was tearful on the phone because he misses you but is trying to keep the peace at home.

Sadfella, my heart goes out to you. How painful to be CO (cut off) by your son and not even get to meet your new GS or find out his name! I can barely imagine how much that must hurt.

I think it was brave - and wise - of you to come here and tell us about your troubles. I understand if you don't wish to tell us the details of the "falling out," but I hope, eventually, you find it in you to do so. No identifying details, of course, but just enough so we know what it is you two argued about.

You say you and your son have never argued - but you also say he has "changed" a lot since meeting his DW. Have their been tensions between you over these changes? Some disagreements over how they are doing things, even if they didn't end up in full-blown arguments until now? Maybe baby-related, about the child's name or their childbirth choices or arrangements, etc? (If it was about the baby, that would explain why he told your XW not to give you current info.) It's hard to get my mind around the idea that one argument would lead to an estrangement just like that, unless there had been a build-up of issues over time. But I know I could be wrong.

Perhaps you should just back off for now, as some posters have suggested, and wait until he reaches out to you again. Hopefully, he will since he clearly still loves you.

But if you feel the need to try one more time, then I agree w/ Namsnanny's suggestion. I would just add an apology for the thing(s) that upset him. You haven't said if you know what it was, but there must be some clues in that argument you had. If that doesn't get some kind of response, though, then, IMO, you will really have to step back and be patient.

Of course, XW is afraid that the same thing could happen to her if she gives you info about son and his family. He told her not to and it is HIS life and HIS family. She sees what happened to you and, quite rightly, I think, fears the same could happen to her if she goes against his wishes regarding his own family unit. IDKY some posters seem surprised at this. I sense you understand and won't pressure XW for info about your new GS, etc., even though I know you must be aching for some (I would be, too, if I were in your shoes).

I hope you have other things in your life to enjoy, meanwhile - your job, a hobby, a circle of friends, other relatives, etc. And please keep reaching out to us.

Sadfella
i physically took care of my grandchild for 4 years since 7 weeks old , then march I was told I couldn't take care of her anymore , my adult child stopped contact , no matter what I said/ did wasn't right , he'd just get angry. I know my little grandchild would of deeply missed me/us , we had a warm and loving relationship , it's a very tricky situation , like most on here ( smileless ) we've been left deeply hurt, sad , and with false hope , I can only hope you resolve situation , all I can say no contact is intolerable, incredibly painful and sad..