No jab no job

Fine by me. I work with a covidiot that doesn't want the vaccine. Let him go.

I think if people want to exert their "right" not to have the jab, then they can't complain when others exert their right not to employ them.

Is that on the assumption that those who have had the vaccine cannot catch covid or spread it while those who refuse can?
If so it is clearly nonsense.
The vaccines we have at the moment protect the one vaccinated, that is all.

It doesn’t apply to those already employed I believe, but you can insist on it for new employees.
I’ve spent many hours in a chemo unit over the past year or so and recently, since I’ve had my jab, brought up the ‘have you had one’ question to the nurses. Many have said No, to my surprise. Not my place to ask why, but I do wonder.

I thought there was evidence that the Oxford jab decreased transmissibility?

Also if you are working with vulnerable people, and the jab means you are less likely to contract COVID, shouldn’t you have it?

I do worry about where this leads though. I worry about the impact will have on those with disabilities if people think they have the right to ask questions about peoples medical history etc.

I find myself somewhat u characteristically uncertain about this this issue for various reasons which do not make a coherent whole. So I will ramble on incoherently. Firstly we need more information about transmission. IIRC the research we have is for AZ and found a reduction of maybe 67% in transmission. This research is far from the end of the story and more is being carried out. Secondly I haven’t seen any research re Pfizer yet on this. Also, there is still the issue of efficacy. So I wonder about what is known as ‘moral hazard’. Person A a carer is vaccinated and feels safe from catching or transmitting COVId and so gets careless about still following basic rules. Person B who is being cared for knows Person A is vaccinated so similarly might let their guard down.

Secondly, Pimlico plumbers want all their staff to be vaccinated. Are they also going to insist that all their customers are vaccinated?

Thirdly, it just makes me feel uncomfortable. I don’t think it’s right to ask staff caring for you if they’ve been vaccinated either. It will help when we know more about transmission and efficacy ( not to mention duration of protection)

Uncharacteristically

I had Covid back in March,I was vaccinated three weeks ago and yet this week I have tested positive for coronavirus and I’m now having to self isolate. I did a lateral flow test this morning and that is negative but I have to go by the one that they did at work that get sent away..

I work in care, I wouldn't want any relative of mine to be attended by a carer who had not been vaccinated. When I interview new staff we talk to them about their values and can bring vaccination into that discussion. If they are the type of people who take their views about the value of medication from antivax facebook sites they are not really suitable for the job anyway. I would certainly prefer a plumber who was vaccinated and as a friend of mine was extremely ill and hospitalised after being coughed on by a check out person early in the pandemic I'd want them to be vaccinated too, along with most other customer service staff.

What a lot of fuss and bother. If I’m going on holiday to somewhere that requires a vaccination I either have the jab or book a different place to stay! No-one is forcing anybody to apply for a job with vaccination requirements. Just go and work for a company who doesn’t have them.
Similarly, if you want to work with children you need a DBS check. If you object, don’t work with children! I believe even Disney make vaccinations a requirement on occasion. What’s the big deal?

I work in care, and am on my way home from a house where the two occupants aren't going to be vaccinated.
They have a variety of people involved in their lives who are necessary (I suppose, if I'm taking a generous view) but I know for certain that one of these people is very, very involved with looking after grandchildren, taking adult children here, there and everywhere, and hasn't followed any guidelines at all, ever.

Because anyone can get a dbs check (what it shows is a different matter) but they are open to all. Vaccinations are not open to all so you exclude a section of society from many areas of work. There is something about it that makes me uncomfortable.

I'm not sure where I sit on the issue.
I'm absolutely in favour of people being able to decline, but.....

MissAdventure

I'm not sure where I sit on the issue.
I'm absolutely in favour of people being able to decline, but.....

Yes I know but..... It’s a toughie. How do you feel about vaccinated plumbers having the right to only go into homes where customers are similarly vaccinated?

I have asked if my daughter's staff have been vaccinated. The care provider actually sent a letter out saying they have heavily advised all staff within the organisation to have the vaccine and some figure over 90% had taken the opportunity to be vaccinated. They still continue to be tested twice a week, still wear PPE and SD when they can but obviously a lot of those being cared for require a high level of personal care. I really don't understand why they haven't vaccinated all vulnerable residents yet. We having discussions about jobs when really the vulnerable people need to be kept out of hospital too or are they openly admitting they discriminate against certain groups?

I too am uncomfortable that it could be forced on people who have many and varied reasons for not wanting to be vaccinated.
However, there is a precedent; I believe all clinical dental staff have to be immunised against hepatitis b. Is that the right one?
I’m sure all hospital staff are regularly tested for COVID now, as are all new patients, and this is maybe more important than insisting on vaccination.

Another here who isn’t sure about this issue. Himself is all for it thinks it’s the way forward. I’m dubious about it all and forgeries will be rife anyway I expect on the internet.

I suppose everybody has the right to expose themselves to the amount of risk they see fit, whether they are the person providing the service, or the service user.

Then that raises the issue of who actually has that amount of autonomy in their lives these days; not many, I suppose.

I'm really interested in the whole issue of consent, rights, and autonomy, so could fill the whole thread with my thoughts...
I wanted to to say, reading Shinamae's experience, that I have weekly tests.

At first they started categorically when the test was negative; "you do not have corona virus".
This changed to "at the time the test was taken, you did not have corona virus".
They now say simply "your test was negative".

Do you mean this to apply to people who cannot have the jab for medical reasons?

If so, I think it would be unfair. Perhaps there aren't many people who fall into this category but I am sure there are 18 - 67 year olds who will be advised to not be vaccinated.

I intend to have the vaccine. Ideally, I'd like everyone to have it but it may not be possible.

Employers already demand certain vaccinations. You are not allowed to work in the NHS, the military for example unless you have had your full course of routine childhood vaccinations and boosters and Hepatitis B vaccine.

MissAdventure post some more of your thoughts on consent, rights and autonomy. You’re so right how important these things are. When an issue like this is discussed, it’s so important imo to look at the philosophical/ethical underpinnings.
Jane I absolutely understand why you asked the home but I’m not sure it’s right to ask individuals. Also your point about the residents - yes and I would say that’s part of what I was trying to explain - there are two parties - careers and residents, plumbers and customers. There’s something not quite right imo about saying one party must be vaccinated and not the other
Urm yes I’ve wondered about how foolproof the evidence would be
Tangerine yes I’ve wondered about that too - but then I’ve also got pretty irritated with genuine mask exempt people who don’t think they should limit their interactions with others so maybe of you can’t have a vaccine for medical reasons, it might mean you can’t do some jobs. After all, if your eyesight is poor you can’t be a pilot.