A divided society-what can be done?

its not just about the benefits they bring though,its about treating EVERYONE as equal surely.I dont understand where all this racist stuff is coming from...well I do Mr Farage and his cohorts elling folk "foreigners" were taking their jobs,using their health services and taking benefits they weren't entitled to!We NEED immmigration ,MOST immigrants work ,pay tax and contribute to their communities ...well they do here in Scotland

It's so difficult when you hear the rants being yelled out and see the people who are doing this. I feel I have more in common with the students from other countries than with the people who are yelling about keeping this country British. The Britain they want isn't the one I want. I try very hard to understand what has made them behave the way they do, but really I can't.

A divided society.

Can anyone tell me when this Utopia existed when society WASN'T divided in one way or another? When did it happen, because in my 60+ years I missed it.

When did we live in this glorious age when everybody loved one another, trusted one another, lived with equal opportunities, equal income and love in their hearts for everyone, no matter where they came from?

It's an ideal but sadly you cannot tell people how they should think and behave and what they should like or dislike. Life is unfair and always has been.

All we can do is educate our children to be more broadminded. Wringing our hands about immigration not being a wonderful notion gets us nowhere and is an excuse to, dare I say it, throw a little more hatred around in the direction of those who wanted out of the EU.

Same old same old on the politics forum, wrapped in another guise.

I agree totally Day6

There has always been racism, always been a divided society, every generation has tried to change it, never succeeded, improvements yes but the utopia of equality for all isn't going to happen.

day6 you are right. Except if you look at history, there are times when the divide is much greater than others.

When did we live in this glorious age when everybody loved one another, trusted one another, lived with equal opportunities, equal income and love in their hearts for everyone, no matter where they came from?

There never was such a time, we all know that. But although divisiveness was always there in the background there was a feeling that we had become a more diverse and tolerant society, if only because it was no longer as overt as it was a few decades ago.

I feel that Brexit has brought it all bubbling back to the surface, the Leave focus on immigration has brought out the extremists who believe that their hatred is condoned by that 52% vote, and that it won't go away again.

I can't remember until perhaps 10 years ago people marching through the middle of a city chanting slogans that I can't repeat because they are racist and shouting at people that they should go home. But perhaps you live in a sheltered country haven and haven't seen the very real hatred now being expressed. If you don't think it exists why do you think the money is being committed?
I don't think there was ever an age when everyone loved everyone, but there was certainly a time when expressions of hatred were not seen on our High Streets

trisher I don't think there was ever an age when everyone loved everyone, but there was certainly a time when expressions of hatred were not seen on our High Streets

You are right, but this raises another point.

Have we been told over the years how to think and behave? Has the "You MUST love everyone and accept your culture will be diluted by multiculturalism" agenda actually backfired?

In Britain we do have a divided society. The integration dreamed for hasn't happened everywhere. Most people happily live side by side, but we have HUGE swathes of the country where people do not want to integrate.

You cannot force ideals on people. People resent being told how to think or behave. Taking the moral high ground and saying this is the only way forward isn't going to work. It's a fairly aggressive stance, sidelining anyone who has objections. They become the people not playing ball - but should they have to?

I suspect most of us take one another as we find them. Colour, background or race doesn't enter into it. People are interesting and diversity is good and enlightening. I firmly believe that. We educate our children to not see differences but to embrace the way we are alike.

I suspect in decades we have done heck of a lot of wall-papering over cracks. It hasn't been accepted that thinking differently is allowed. A political correctness has deemed that we do not have discussions about what troubles or concerns us. This is where we went astray imo.

Look how quickly both the Labour and Tory parties put immigration high on their agendas once UKIP opened that can of worms. People were allowed for once to voice their views and the two main political parties were forced to recognise it was a subject that had to be talked about because it concerned many people.

You can deny or accept that.

We talk about immigration because aspects of it are of concern. Yes, it's given racists a platform, but to equate everyone as racist who has concerns is going back to that convenient social wall-papering over cracks.

Discussion is good. To stifle discussion because it doesn't fit your agenda is bad.

It's a lazy response to label everyone who has concerns about immigration (for a myriad of reasons) as racist.

I think what would help would be to educate all children together, abolish faith schools. I don't mean that children should be taught to abandon their parents faith, but they could be taught about it outside school.
That way they could see from a very early age that people are just people.

I think a lot of racism is born from a feeling of hopelessness . People living on the edge of society looking for someone or something to blame for their plight.

In the sixties there were signs in boarding houses no blacks, no dogs, we had the BNP for decades, always been racist chants at football matches . I do think UKIP made it acceptable to be racist, we now hear - I am not racist but .

I have suffered racism, but as much as I abhor it I can understand for some it isn't hating skin colour but fear of losing one's identity .

Have we been told over the years how to think and behave? Has the "You MUST love everyone and accept your culture will be diluted by multiculturalism" agenda actually backfired?

I have a feeling that if it has backfired it has backfired worst in areas with very little diversity in the population. It's much easier to hate an unknown than hate the charming and friendly family who run the local newsagents and whose kids play with your kids.

Having said that, I am sure that in 'diverse' communities where the different sections don't mix the 'fear of the unknown' effect is undoubtedly as strong.

I must say that I am totally bemused by the apparent resurgence of anti-semitism. I was brought up in the era when all sorts of prejudices were bubbling away in the background, West Indian, African, Indian etc but never anti Jewish. Heavens, they were the victims of the Holocaust and greatly to be pitied. So where has that come from?

(anti-Zionism I can understand but it is not anti-semitism)

trisher - as you say , very sad to see that kind of thing in Newcastle. From my memories there were very few people from other races there - few jobs. Compared to the SE.
The NE still seems to be economically poor, I think that's part of the buildup of racism.
Maizie antisemitism - that has always been there, but people were afraid to come out openly about it. As I've mentioned before, I converted to Judaism (husband is a Jew) and have occasionally experienced it personally. Which is a strange situation. But as aJewish lady once said to me, some Jews are racist too.
As are many black people - don't blame them.

I think Newcastle was deliberately targeted by the far right German group Pegida as they saw the opportunity to engage with those living either in or on the edge, of poverty.

paddyann
The leaders of France and Sweden are thinking exactly the way Farage does.
Have you not seen the news ( yesterday) that the two countries want to block the free movement of labour from Eastern European states.
And to think that 'some' people believe it's only us.

trisher
Have you forgotten, or choose to forget that Anjem Choudrey wanted to March through Wootton Bassett so that he could spout his hatred towards our country.
There's hardly a day goes past when we don't read of a Muslim wanting to harm us.
I'm not defending this hatred but I see very clearly how it's come about.

Macron is opening reception and processing centres in Libya to stem the flow of refugees taking the 'crazy' sea crossing - and also to filter out economic migrants.
He wants to stop companies actively recruiting from Easter European countries for low paid jobs where they will pay lower wages. He is in fact in favour of migration - my French friend and I were discussing it yesterday.

welshwife
So that was fake news then?

Welsh wife - He wants to stop companies actively recruiting from Easter European countries for low paid jobs where they will pay lower wages.

There are staunch socialists who want out of the EU for just that reason.

The EU in allowing cheap labour to flood Europe is making employers rich, off the back of poor people who will accept any wage just to survive.

It's iniquitous. It supports capitalism at its worst and its one of the reasons I wanted out of the EU. Cheap migrant Labour benefits no one but bosses who make mighty profits from it.

No wonder the likes of Richard Branson and billionaires like him want to remain in the EU. Look at all the wealthy people that want to remain. They have no notion of redistributing their wealth!

It also keeps wages low in all EU countries. Agencies here pay a pittance now to all those wanting work, no matter whether they are UK citizens or immigrants. They can get away with it too. It's grossly unfair but only those accepting the lowest rate will find work. It's exploitation.

How does cheap migrant labour benefit the working classes?

Day6
So we both read the same fake news
At the moment I'm far more interested in the new 'Warsaw' pact. It's hotting up in the east isn't it?
Poor old Juncker and Tusk have grief coming from both directions .

day6 there an EU rule that says that workers from wherever they come must be paid the same as the indigenous labour.

If what you are saying is true. First we need the evidence and then we could send it to HMRC as it is against the law.

The rise of right wing extremism is rarely truly to do with race and usually to do with poverty and the feeling of impotence. Those with power use race to gain the loyalty of the disaffected and disempowered poor 'indigenous' population. Those with power do not like and do not want to help the poor but they need them as foot soldiers to de-satablise society so that they can push their ideals forward and gain further finacial and political power. Happened like that in the 30s. Let's try and learn from the past!

The connection between poverty and racism is definitely a factor, which makes it even more ironic that one of the premier sources of income in Newcastle now are the two universities who currently employ over 5000 people and bring money into many other businesses in the area. I wonder if part of this is also the class/race division as the students here (most are not long term immigrants) are from more affluent circumstances than the people who are marching?