Patriotic, not.

That's no surprise though is it while JRM does the Little Lord Fonterleroy act and says nice things about nanny he is quietly making another fortune on the back of this countries problems.

Michael Gove has admitted that a mass cull of lambs would be necessary after a no deal Brexit as the market for them would have disappeared .Didn't hear that on MSM !! I believe thats whats changing Welsh farmers minds about their leave vote ,that and th fact the subsidies they got from the EU WONT be replaced by Westminster .Brexit ..the gift that keeps on giving!!

Saw this today, and I <3 it

I am NOT a TRAITOR, I care deeply about my country's fate and future prosperity

I am NOT a REMOANER - I am alert about the dire warnings given by experts in all fields

I am NOT a PESSIMIST - I can see al the advantages of being a strong EU partner

I am not BETRAYING a PESSIMIST but I am really worried about my country losing its traditional values of tolerance, acceptance and diversity

I will not be silenced by far right anti EU propaganda machine - never.

JRM apparently thinks it would be fine to import our food.

Surely nobody believes that the rich right wingers pushing for Brexit are doing it for altruistic reasons? These men and women see an opportunity to grow their assets and they’re taking it - and to hell with the rest of us.

Indeed - how anyone cannot see that by now, is just beyond me.

ERG have never wanted a Deal- and pushed for Leave to avoir new EU Directives on Tax Havens and Tax Evasion - it is crystal clear. Now just going through motions, pretending - knowing full well the EU just cannot drop the backstop- and cannot give the UK a 'cake and eat with all the trimmings' deal that would put other EU members at a clear disadvantage.

They don't see it Jura2 because they are blinkered and will never admit they may be wrong. Even when it all does go wrong it will not be blamed on Brexit but they will find another scape goat.

Ok the remainers on here have had their twopen'orth....and what a miserable lot they sound....how about some pro-leavers stepping in and putting a more positive view?

Go on then!

Did the Welsh farmers not know they would lose markets and subsidies from the EU? I would say serves them bl---y well right, if the rest of us weren't going to suffer as well.

Idiots.

There is nothing positive to post about Brexit.

Good idea Rosie.

We are miserable but funnily enough it is not of our making. We are sad and concerned about what this country has become and where it is going. We are reading the papers, seeing the news, looking on the Internet and learning about both sides but there does not seem to be much to be happy about. Maybe we will look on all this in 50 years and smile about it but I for one do not expect to be around then.

The Brexiteers are not much more cheerful either. They do not seem to know where we are heading. At least they are not telling. Maybe they have some good news up their sleeve that they are not telling. If they have I would love to hear it.

Actually I think they do see it. Yes, I'm cynical but when I think about the last few weeks I note that BJ has been going round the country promising loads of cash to everyone. Of course he has not said where that money is coming from. He and his cronies lied to us all in 2016 and it worked for them so he is doing the same again.

In the last few weeks they started hinting that we could get a deal if both sides were reasonable which has become it will be the EU's fault if we don't get a deal. Imo they always knew they couldn't get a better deal and are now claiming it is not their fault it is the fault of the EU who are doing their best for themselves. What did they expect?

There is an interesting video going around of Liz Truss being questions and, after saying we can't change our minds, admits she changed hers!

The prime movers are making a lot of money out of this and their supporters are agreeing to save their jobs. There are very few MPs prepared to put country before party.

RosieLeah, let’s hear your positive angle then to balance things out.
Yes, I voted to remain. However the democratic vote was to leave. So be it. I am very concerned about what will happen once we are out and yes I am pessimistic about this issue.
I very much hope I am proved wrong

And still no sign of a straight answer as to why those who voted Leave, did so !! Even on here !

I'm not very good at putting my feelings into words, so I hoped others who are more articulate would step in. Perhaps the trouble is that this subject has been sucked dry and there's nothing new to say.
What I do think is that the title of this thread is mis-leading, because IMO, the Leavers are the patriotic ones.

EllanV imo you are wasting your time! I've asked time and time again and the most sensible answer I got was from someone whose family firm was being undercut by Eastern European firms! I cannot see how leaving the EU would help them. However, should you ever hear of a good reason please PM me because I would be very excited to read it.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Thanks for your honesty. WTO makes us vassals of WTO unelected leaders. Not being able to Trade with the EU tariff free makes us dependent on Trump's USA and their very low standards on so many things- and makes us at massive risk of the NHS being sold to them piece meal. It makes us totally isolated on this Continent - and unable to protect ourselves in this crisis with Iran. And so much more ... how can this be called 'taking back control'?

Where do you get your 'facts' from?

‘Britain to remain white’. !!

Wow, I thank goodness for all the ‘non white ‘ people who are willing to do the jobs that ‘white’ people won’t.
Also , I hope you never need a doctor, or nurse when there are no white ones on duty.
I am amazed at this attitude and somewhat embarrassed.

Britain to remain white

What a nasty racist little post. I have reported it and hopefully it will be taken down soon.

RosieLeah, that’s why I used the word ‘patriotic’ because that is one of the Leavers’ mantras and yet here is a very influential, powerful, wealthy man who is betting against our businesses, our economy, hoping to increase his millions.

The problem is with threads like these is the Remainers are very loud and confident. Anyway who dares offer an opposing opinion are called stupid, gullible, easily led, traitors. I was even called a snowflake by someone which I must admit caused much hilarity.

I've never been a huge fan of the EU. Not since its inception actually.

My main issue, possibly due to my ancestry, is that the EU keeps Africa poor. There is no doubt about this. Plenty for you to read up so no demands for facts. How Germany can actually make more money than countries in Africa for its coffee trade beats me. I'm sure you're all aware, coffee isn't grown in Germany.

I loathe live animal transport and have been engaged in many a protest. Successive governments have told us it is completely impossible for us to stop this due to the EU. If we leave maybe there will be a chance for this to be looked at.

I'm also opposed to the way the richer countries of the EU have exploited the poorer countries by encouraging them to work for very poor wages, doing jobs that the wealthier countries natives don't want to do.

I don't understand why we paid 13 billion and got 4 back in 2018. Also the 4 billion we received had to go on whatever the other 27 countries agreed to. This to me is odd.

We have already lost many jobs to the EU. Many companies have relocated over the years with EU grants. Nobody seemed that concerned about those job losses.

Below is Gorbachev's quote about the EU.

""The most puzzling development in modern politics is the apparent determination of Western European leaders to re-create the Soviet Union in Western ""

The EU will not continue, as is, for years and years to come. Eventually it will collapse. Too many rules and regulations are causing chaos. And a disgruntled populace. According to a recent poll 58% of the European population say it's unlikely to still be around in 20 years. Nothing to do with Brexit.

There have been many 'no deal' preparations put in place. We have absolutely no idea what will happen.

I find it sad though that the Remainers on here are almost yearning for it to cause widespread destruction.

Your negativity won't change anything. You can't stop what is going to happen. Apart from anything else we don't even know if there will be a No Deal Brexit.

And that's my opinion. Call me what you like. It matters not.

And that's my last word on the subject. I think I'll stick with the limericks. Much better for my feeble mind, I'm sure you'll agree!

So much for my last word. I am not one of the Leavers who want Europe to stay white. It can't with me in it!