The bus said it cost £350 million A WEEK to be in the EU

paddyanne please give it a rest. We know how you feel about Scottish Independence, you have made it clear so often. There really is nothing new you can say on the subject

For those of us not living in Scotland, we care very little one way or the other. For those living in Scotland, whatever their opinion, you are unlikely to change it.

I am beginning to be so glad that, back in the 17th century, my Scottish ancestors decided that Ulster was a better bet than Scotland and emigrated there.

I can understand folks outrage at Westminster, but I find nationalism a very sad path to tread.

It is never a terribly successful outcome. We all do so much better when we work together. That is why brexit is such a sad outcome.

For those of us not living in Scotland, we care very little one way or the other

That's a rather sweeping statement Monica!

I hope Scotland doesn't break away but can understand why it would do so.

I’m with you Riverwalk.
I hope they don’t break away. Yet (as a Brexiteer) I can understand their desire to do so and become independent - even at the expense of being poorer for a while.

That said I’m sure it’s better & more conducive to persuading them to stay to say ‘please don’t go, we’d miss you’ rather than ‘well bog off then’.
?

Thread police, MOnica?

paddyanne, as far as I'm aware, can post about Scottish independence as much as she likes. No-one is obliged to read it or respond...

I'm actually quite sympathetic to Scottish independence.

BTW I'm still agog to know about Cromwell and the Civil War ?

....but paddyanne is quite happy to be under the yoke of Brussels once/if they break away from England.How about being a really free Scotland?
The truth is that hatred of all things English fires the SNP.
We won’t be seeing another referendum about it for ages in any case.

paddyanne I'm away to have my breakfast then I'll be back to help you explode some Unionist myths. Set you later. ?

I also voted Brexit, so also understand why Scotland would wish for independence ( though now with hindsight, the pandemic and my lack of faith of the current government I sincerely regret that vote)
The current politics are so divisive and Westminster is doing no favours by being completely out of touch with the North and an us vs them stance in their interactions with Scotland.

Perhaps Algerias will be back with the true figures of payments with the EU....

That was nice. Muesli and grapes.

There are three kinds of people when it comes to Scottish independence. Unionist at any cost, independence at any cost and those in the middle who are willing to be persuaded in either direction. We don’t have to change the minds of people on the extremes, we’re talking to the ones in the middle who are ready to listen. Latest polls show that there’s lots of them, no doubt swayed by this WM government’s dismal performance in just about everything lately.

The thing that many people just don’t get is that we don’t hate the English. It’s easy to think that when you can’t imagine that any group of people might not actually want to be part of the great UK dream of Empire 2.0, but we don’t hate the English. In Scotland we’ve realised that we don’t define ourselves by hating or marginalising anyone, we would really just like to stand on our own two feet. Lemon makes the common mistake that we’re breaking away from England, forgetting that the Union is currently 4 countries, not just England. You might like to ponder that for a while and see how it feeds into our thought processes.

In Scotland we understand that smaller countries need to be in a good network with other nations that respect them, that’s why we want to be in the EU. We don’t delude ourselves that we could be like Germany or France, but we could be like Denmark or Finland. Or Ireland, where the EU have demonstrated lately that even the smaller member states are worth standing up for.

The UK Union’s been good to us, but its not working any more, now that we’ve found our confidence again. And if you’re thinking about telling me how we can’t stand on our own 2 feet, how we won’t get another referendum, how yes, really, we do hate the English – think about the irony of that.

I am not trying to police anything, but as this is a public forum I am as entirely free to voice my opinion as anyone else.

''I am beginning to be so glad that, back in the 17th century, my Scottish ancestors decided that Ulster was a better bet than Scotland and emigrated there.''

well that is another very messy kettle of fish and dark part of history.

It’s actually England rather than Wales or NI that SNP want to break away from, but in order to do that they have to break away with all three countries.It’s such an obvious fact it hardly needs saying.
As Monica says, most people aren’t too fussed about whatever the people in Scotland decide to do anyway.
The figures a couple of years ago of monies given to the EU from the UK ran at about £280 million a week.That’s with the rebate already applied.

So I've explained how we are thinking here in Scotland, but Lemon continues to tell me that she knows better than me what we think, and that you don't care about us anyway.

Is it any wonder that we want to be away?

biba70 exactly.

I thought this thread was going to be about Brexit and found it’s about Scottish independence. As an English person I don’t have strong feelings either way, but if they want independence and vote for independence in a new referendum, then fair enough, independence they can have, although I feel there would probably need to be a fair bit of cooperation between the two countries, at least at first.
I’m not entirely sure what would happen about the currency.

Wrong Alegrias..... I didn’t say we didn’t care ( which puts a different connotation to it) but that most people aren’t too fussed about it, meaning let the people in Scotland decide to stay with the Union or go their own way if they have another referendum.As a believer in independence I would applaud them for deciding that way if they are unhappy.
There isn’t any anti Welsh or anti NI feelings in Scotland, but there are certainly some anti English feelings.

I am not by instinct a nationalist, so would see it as a total failure if Scotland broke all ties.

Before Scotland becomes independent could it please annexe Yorkshire. We have for more in common with Scotland that we do with Westminster and I'd vote for independence like a shot.

I thought Scotland had already had a referendum on independence? Or do folk keep having one until they get the outcome they personally want?

Crcumstances have changed vastly since the last one, as you well know. You also know that Scotland is being dragged out of the EU against their will- and that they have been treated appallingly before, during and after the Brexit Referendum.

A bit of Lemonsplaining there! Telling a Scot what they think! Apologies if you are in fact Scottish lemongrove..it did not come across that way.

I can understand exactly why some Scots want independence and to maintain membership of the EU. In the EU they would have an equal voice and they would be working for common good.

It feels that Westminster is very LondonEngland-centric place and not aware or caring about the outer lying parts of the Kingdom (Queendom?) I have noticed this more since moving (only a few miles) out of London.

However I would be as sorry to see the break up of the Union as i am to be leaving the EU.

Still a lot less than this country sends out in foreign aid !

Just google how much is sent to about a dozen countries .