The grim list of sex abuse claims against the Met Police - observer 21.0321

I would quite like to know the rate of complaints in a similar size organisation. So is it a case of institutional misogyny within the met (sorry that seems an inadequate phrase for the offences) or is this the scale of offences that women and children are facing from all organisations. I am not sure I have phrased that very well.

It's difficult, isn't it?

If people don't have confidence in the police, it can only end badly, but of course when the place to complain is the police force itself, it must be very difficult for victims to feel that there is much point.

At the same time, the police are probably more likely than most to have malicious complaints made against them, as their role is going to put them in situations where people have grudges.

A curfew and a £500 fine does not, on the face of it, seem to be a serious enough penalty for a physical and sexual assault.

One way or another, the Met (in particular, but all police forces) need to crack down really hard and find a way to make sure that they both attract the 'right' sort of applicant and that they nip any misbehaviour in the bud before it gets a chance to escalate to a point where it might warrant a complaint.

This doesn’t relate to the Met but my DS was rejected in his attempts to join two police forces so settled for becoming a PCSO. He completed the training and was enthusiastic about his new rôle, not least because an Inspector involved with the training suggested that this could be a way into achieving his original goal.
Sadly, within weeks he became disillusioned with the position. He was sent to a backwater in a shire county station where he was not supported. Other officers regularly clocked in then went home to do decorating or helped others with moving furniture. Reluctantly, on one occasion he joined them for a drink after his shift ended but was appalled by the disrespectful way that women with whom they worked were being discussed.
My DS is no angel and had lived away from home after university, being 28 when this happened. He left after six months.

Other officers regularly clocked in then went home to do decorating

What were the superior officers doing to allow this to happen? Just because it was a ‘backwater in a shire county station’ shouldn’t have meant there was no crime happening.
Most rural counties have too few officers to cover their patch, sometimes just a couple of them cover a huge area.

Galaxy

I would quite like to know the rate of complaints in a similar size organisation. So is it a case of institutional misogyny within the met (sorry that seems an inadequate phrase for the offences) or is this the scale of offences that women and children are facing from all organisations. I am not sure I have phrased that very well.

I’m not sure why it actually matters what the rates of complaints are for other organisations. That wouldn’t change the fact that here we are talking about police officers who are in positions of huge responsibility with access to people at their most vulnerable. People will trust them, let them into their homes, believe what they say.

Despite some changes, it still seems possible to resign, retire on ill health grounds to avoid a proper investigation. This may need further restrictions.

Another thread is talking about misleading statistics- the figures here are clearly only part of the story about police behaviour and attitudes. We know that not all crimes get reported for one thing but the other issue is that we know that their are problems with how the police deal with crimes against women committed by non- police officers ( Warboys, domestic abuse complaints)

The police can’t help but reflect the society they are recruited from but as I posted elsewhere ( last two cases of police officers were probationers) exactly how robust are our recruitment and training procedures? Then the ongoing culture.

I don’t think we’ve got a police service in crisis but I think it could do better and we have got a society it reflects that is riddled with sexism and misogyny.

‘I don’t think we’ve got a police service in crisis but I think it could do better and have got a society it reflects that is riddled with sexism and misogyny ‘

My working life involved training police officers, as well as working alongside them. I found very few officers whose attitudes or behaviour caused concern.

I suppose the point is there are some professional groups in society we rightly set higher standards for. There’s a balance to be struck between not exaggerating the problem and perhaps not dealing with individual officers properly.

What do you think the answer is, Iam?

There is certainly a problem we should not be getting the volume of complaints and certainly not routine misogyny or racism. It is probably the type of person that wants to join the police, you can train them all you want but some will revert to aggression. Working in an environment where criminality and abuse is routine must be enormously frustrating and we have to accept that if a woman needs to be arrested it is easy to allege sexual assault.
There is plenty of improvement that can be made in police behavior but they are better than almost any other country, or does anyone think that US or French or Spanish police would be better.

Doodledog, there’s no one fix all is there. It’s back to the debate about society, the way our children are socialised, educated and cared for. We should invest in early years because the evidence is all one way, it has positive outcomes.

Katie59,, have you worked in, or with police? ‘It’s probably the type of person who wants to join the police, you can train them all you want but some will revert to aggression. That’s a damning view of our police service and not my experience.

Iam64 this is just SO dispiriting. Nearly 100 complaints every year (and 20 or so upheld). Awful.

Why is this still going on?

The Independent Police Complaints Commission undertook a review of this area way back in 2012 which flagged up a range of issues which should have be addressed. Why is it we are so reluctant to embed learning from case reviews?

I have lost touch a bit recently to be honest but I remember there were several easily remedied issues - such as better oversight, easier reporting of the suspicions of other officers, properly vetting the new recruits (especially important for those from the armed forces) etc.
I seem to remember there being a checklist.

Why can't we learn and move forward?

www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.policeconduct.gov.uk/sites/default/files/Documents/research-learning/abuse_of_police_powers_to_perpetrate_sexual_violence.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwi3pPDFvs3vAhUFqXEKHee_Bk0QFjAAegQIAxAC&usg=AOvVaw0PDEFtih20eL6GXnO6ovxf

This is the report I was talking about.

Iam64

Doodledog, there’s no one fix all is there. It’s back to the debate about society, the way our children are socialised, educated and cared for. We should invest in early years because the evidence is all one way, it has positive outcomes.

Katie59,, have you worked in, or with police? ‘It’s probably the type of person who wants to join the police, you can train them all you want but some will revert to aggression. That’s a damning view of our police service and not my experience.

As I said “SOME” will revert to aggression or abuse, which is pretty obviously what’s happening. Police have to be pretty confident and able to handle themselves, I know quite a few and they are great people that only want to help, but then I am not a criminal. I don’t abuse them or throw bricks or try to knife them.

I'm in no way surprised by all this ! Who is there to police the police ??

I have another story in mind going back years but can't comment as the case in question is on-going.

EllanVannin

I'm in no way surprised by all this ! Who is there to police the police ??

We are there to police the police, the general public, they are accountable, it is public opinion that determines what is acceptable and what is not.

In all complaints there are 2 sides to the story, thankfully many/most police wear body cameras and what really happened is recorded, that is highly likely why a lot of complaints are made and only a few upheld. Far more of us should support the police because they are the best we have got

Two reports I have become aware of today.

The first is that the Bristol police said that their officers has received broken bones and punctured lung in the recent women's protest.

None of it true.

And two young sisters went missing recently whilst celebrating a birthday in the local park. It was reported to the Met police, but nothing was done and it was left to the family to look and find their bodies in the park.

There is a photo of the young girls making light patterns with their phones. Just the two of them.

And two young sisters went missing recently whilst celebrating a birthday in the local park. It was reported to the Met police, but nothing was done and it was left to the family to look and find their bodies in the park.

There were definitely failings in the case of the sisters, but at 27 and 46 their absence was never going to prompt an investigation within a few hours. Most would turn up within a day or two, it's thankfully rare for two women to be murdered in those circumstances.

Rosie51

^And two young sisters went missing recently whilst celebrating a birthday in the local park. It was reported to the Met police, but nothing was done and it was left to the family to look and find their bodies in the park.^

There were definitely failings in the case of the sisters, but at 27 and 46 their absence was never going to prompt an investigation within a few hours. Most would turn up within a day or two, it's thankfully rare for two women to be murdered in those circumstances.

The real issue here was the police taking selfies with the sisters ‘ dead bodies. I haven’t heard the outcome of that yet but I know the murder trial has started recently so better be careful and not say any more.

As for people being reported missing and the police taking it seriously sooner, there are many voices in support of this and a belief that relatives/friends concerns should be taken more seriously.

PS latest I found on this was from last autumn - two policemen arrested and file sent to CPS re being charged and also file with IOPC. Six more officers being investigated for sharing said photographs.

Maybe they should undergo psychiatric evaluation tests every 6 months or so, by an independent body?
I can understand that many must be desensitised due to the things that they see, if that happens maybe something can be done about it or they need to go.
I also think that some bad apples need to be weeded out, before they join the Police again by an independent body and as an ongoing evaluation it doesn’t do anyone any favours if the general public are scared to go to the Police.
A friend tried for years to get into the Police and was a Volunteer Special instead, some of the things she had to do and saw were horrific, but they still wouldn’t allow her to join, at that time it was very much a ‘Boys Club’.

Would doctors, nurses, health workers, social workers, to name but a few also be subjected to mandatory psychiatric evaluation to ensure they’re not desensitised? Of course not.

I agree Iam and frankly it’s not about being desensitised - it’s about being thoroughly unfit for the job. What on earth is taking all this time ? I suppose the criminal case has to be decided first and until there’s a charging decision by the CPS they’ll remain suspended on full pay.

Did anyone look at any of the reports? The one I linked to maybe from 2012? There's plenty of learning to take home.