Brexit, Polls have turned, not just one, but all of them, but one

Yes lemon of course I have seen reports and I think it is disgusting as anyone should. There are exploitative employers everywhere, most we cannot do anything about. Why would you think that I either don't know or don't care?

GillT57

The argument regarding exploited EU labour is spurious; this is down to employers knowing that they can break the law regarding minimum wage, working conditions, employment rights, without fear of prosecution. All happening under Tory administration. Blaming those exploited EU workers for what happens to them is beyond belief, and just the kind of emotive stuff that ghastly people like Farage drummed up. Get unskilled labour to blame migrant unskilled labour rather than the employers. Nice move and sadly thousands of voters sucked it up.

Have you seen the documentaries about the workers ( non Spanish) and their terrible conditions and pay in Spain?
It’s unbelievable...until you see it.

GrannyGravy13

PippaZ

Some of the recent posts sound like the sort if thing you hear from those who are being scammed but cannot stop believing the "person" exists, is real and they have a relationship with them. They go on and on believing this fabricated being is worthy of their love and money because they want so much to be in that relationship and when, it turns out, they are being played by crooks who are out to take all the can they sometimes still cannot stop believing in the invention. They believe in spite of all and any evidence presented to them. I'm stunned, to be honest.

Totally agree PippaZ all of these posters unquestionably supporting the EU over the UK, how silly of them

Brilliant GG ??

Katie59

PippaZ

You seem to agree with Urmstongran completely GrannyGravy13. So why, if you too believe that the Conservatives will turn their coats so completely they will become a new version of Labour, carrying out many of their policies, do you want Labour to wake up? Or are you, unlike Urmstongran, not so sure?

You are joking of course, they will just say they are adopting on those policies then renege later, they have already proved how gullible voters are.

I was more stunned than anything Katie. Leopards and spots came to mind.

MaizieD

^What I saw was you defending Urmstongrans belief that Johnson will change the Tories ^

I think that Johnson has already changed the tories, Pippa; taken them further to the right than they have ever been and happy to tolerate and exercise a degree of corruption and law breaking that hasn't been part of British politics for centuries.

Are tory voters not aware of the government's intention to impose austerity as soon as it possibly can, using the expenditure on covid measures as their excuse? Dollops of money to tory voting 'red wall' constituencies will just be window dressing.

Well, I have to admit that was how I had seen what he is doing and has done Maizie. I expect that was why I was so surprised. It did sound a little odd to be seeing him like that, hence my immediate picture of a romance scanner; someone passing themselves off as an entirely different person with a whole structure behind him designed to make you believe he is just what you want in your life before he takes you for everything he can get. In this instance that would be your vote and your democracy. The trouble is without truth or morals someone can easily scam so many of us. Isn't that why we have always expected them from our politicians and torn apart those who lie and break the law?

GrannyGravy13

MaizieD

A German minister has stated this week that individual countries veto’s should be phased out.

27 member states in the EU, with how many 'ministers' between them?
One minister thinks that individual states' vetos should be phased out. So that's where the whole of the EU will end up? That minister must have an extraordinary degree of influence to be able to change the whole ethos of the EU with one statement...

It will come down to the French & Germans running it whether brazenly from the front or by pulling member states strings from behind.

I'm sorry, GG13 but this sounds very like a 'gammon' narrative. (Just don't mention the War...)

Resorting to name calling MaizieD not really conducive to debate?

That wasn't name-calling It was a description on the comments - carefully made, I thought, so it didn't describe you but the comment style. As we all know making that sort of comment once does not make you that sort of person but it is easy to see what Maizie meant.

MaizieD

^Resorting to name calling MaizieD not really conducive to debate?^

I wasn't calling you anything, GG13, just saying what your narrative sounded like to me.

Of course, getting offended deflects from the main thrust of what I was saying, doesn't it?

Not at all, I enjoy reading your posts even if I seldom agree with them.

I guess you have no idea about the miles and miles of poly-tunnels in southern Spain, manned by immigrants who are kept in inhuman housing, paid peanuts, just so that you and others can have cheap tomatoes, cucumbers, various other salad ingredients and non-seasonal vegetables all year round!!!

Jeez! Evidence that the EU is powerless to micromanage individual member states.

Germany and France are really slipping on the job, aren't they...

Resorting to name calling MaizieD not really conducive to debate?

I wasn't calling you anything, GG13, just saying what your narrative sounded like to me.

Of course, getting offended deflects from the main thrust of what I was saying, doesn't it?

putting to work

Damn IPad

The Labour shortage is likely to be solved by putting all the migrants crossing the channel in boats this summer, we won’t need East European workers

GillT57

The argument regarding exploited EU labour is spurious; this is down to employers knowing that they can break the law regarding minimum wage, working conditions, employment rights, without fear of prosecution. All happening under Tory administration. Blaming those exploited EU workers for what happens to them is beyond belief, and just the kind of emotive stuff that ghastly people like Farage drummed up. Get unskilled labour to blame migrant unskilled labour rather than the employers. Nice move and sadly thousands of voters sucked it up.

I guess you have no idea about the miles and miles of poly-tunnels in southern Spain, manned by immigrants who are kept in inhuman housing, paid peanuts, just so that you and others can have cheap tomatoes, cucumbers, various other salad ingredients and non-seasonal vegetables all year round!!!

Brilliant EU, so hot on workers rights ?????

(To say nothing about the damage to the environment)

What I saw was you defending Urmstongrans belief that Johnson will change the Tories

I think that Johnson has already changed the tories, Pippa; taken them further to the right than they have ever been and happy to tolerate and exercise a degree of corruption and law breaking that hasn't been part of British politics for centuries.

Are tory voters not aware of the government's intention to impose austerity as soon as it possibly can, using the expenditure on covid measures as their excuse? Dollops of money to tory voting 'red wall' constituencies will just be window dressing.

The argument regarding exploited EU labour is spurious; this is down to employers knowing that they can break the law regarding minimum wage, working conditions, employment rights, without fear of prosecution. All happening under Tory administration. Blaming those exploited EU workers for what happens to them is beyond belief, and just the kind of emotive stuff that ghastly people like Farage drummed up. Get unskilled labour to blame migrant unskilled labour rather than the employers. Nice move and sadly thousands of voters sucked it up.

PippaZ

You seem to agree with Urmstongran completely GrannyGravy13. So why, if you too believe that the Conservatives will turn their coats so completely they will become a new version of Labour, carrying out many of their policies, do you want Labour to wake up? Or are you, unlike Urmstongran, not so sure?

You are joking of course, they will just say they are adopting on those policies then renege later, they have already proved how gullible voters are.

MaizieD

^A German minister has stated this week that individual countries veto’s should be phased out.^

27 member states in the EU, with how many 'ministers' between them?
One minister thinks that individual states' vetos should be phased out. So that's where the whole of the EU will end up? That minister must have an extraordinary degree of influence to be able to change the whole ethos of the EU with one statement...

It will come down to the French & Germans running it whether brazenly from the front or by pulling member states strings from behind.

I'm sorry, GG13 but this sounds very like a 'gammon' narrative. (Just don't mention the War...)

Resorting to name calling MaizieD not really conducive to debate?

PippaZ

I wonder why you think everyone will remember all your past posts GrannyGravy13? What I saw was you defending Urmstongrans belief that Johnson will change the Tories and carry out the promises made by the Labour Party which I found a stretch of the imagination to say the least.

It was the fervour with which these beliefs were expressed that took me by surprise as these are not usual Tory policies (or I might have been voting for them) and who trusts Johnson? It did remind me of those poor people who will not be persuaded from a belief in a person no matter what evidence they are given. The EU didn't come into my reaction to this.

What I read into Urmstongrans post regarding UK workforce is that it is a supply and demand situation, less supply means that those who need workers will have to up their game regarding wages and conditions.

This is not rocket science, it’s what responsible employers do consistently, whatever/whoever the Government of the day is.

A German minister has stated this week that individual countries veto’s should be phased out.

27 member states in the EU, with how many 'ministers' between them?
One minister thinks that individual states' vetos should be phased out. So that's where the whole of the EU will end up? That minister must have an extraordinary degree of influence to be able to change the whole ethos of the EU with one statement...

It will come down to the French & Germans running it whether brazenly from the front or by pulling member states strings from behind.

I'm sorry, GG13 but this sounds very like a 'gammon' narrative. (Just don't mention the War...)

I wonder why you think everyone will remember all your past posts GrannyGravy13? What I saw was you defending Urmstongrans belief that Johnson will change the Tories and carry out the promises made by the Labour Party which I found a stretch of the imagination to say the least.

It was the fervour with which these beliefs were expressed that took me by surprise as these are not usual Tory policies (or I might have been voting for them) and who trusts Johnson? It did remind me of those poor people who will not be persuaded from a belief in a person no matter what evidence they are given. The EU didn't come into my reaction to this.

Do you really believe Russia would allow that to states which borders their empire?

PippaZ

You seem to agree with Urmstongran completely GrannyGravy13. So why, if you too believe that the Conservatives will turn their coats so completely they will become a new version of Labour, carrying out many of their policies, do you want Labour to wake up? Or are you, unlike Urmstongran, not so sure?

I am not a Boris Johnson fan (for the umpteenth time)

I did vote for my Conservative constituency MP (for the umpteenth time of posting)

I am more centrist in my political outlook.

A credible strong opposition is necessary for all governments to hold them to account.

The Labour Party has really got to wake up, engage with the electorate or they will continue to be on the opposition benches for the foreseeable future.

As for the EU, yes I voted leave as the whole member states are sleep walking into the Federal States of Europe. A German minister has stated this week that individual countries veto’s should be phased out. It will come down to the French & Germans running it whether brazenly from the front or by pulling member states strings from behind.

You seem to agree with Urmstongran completely GrannyGravy13. So why, if you too believe that the Conservatives will turn their coats so completely they will become a new version of Labour, carrying out many of their policies, do you want Labour to wake up? Or are you, unlike Urmstongran, not so sure?

It is great to see so many of you supporting a govt in power which is proven in a British Court to have broken the law and they don’t even apologise let alone do anything about it! Gove is one of the latest to be shown to be a law breaker.
When eventually these Tories are turfed out - which eventually they will be - it will be a huge mess for the next administration to sort out.

Urmstongran

One of the comments in the Guardian today:

Johnson needs continued opposition to the EU in order to satisfy the knuckle dragging gammons who support him

Nice.

Unfortunately this is becoming the norm the left have no weapons in their armoury other than insults.

The more they continue along these lines, the longer the Conservatives will be in power.

WAKE UP LABOUR

It's not the EU that made me comment - or only that they are quite happy with the fact that people are so blasé about him breaking laws in the way he sets out to do. These people will always find an excuse for this sort of behaviour.

It's the belief that the Tories will change their beliefs, into the complete opposite of what they have always been, because of him that actually left me stunned.