Electoral reform

And the dinosaur Unions talk about 'democracy'

TUC General Secretary Frances O'Grady wrote in 2015-

"This is going to be a big issue at the TUC’s next congress, with big unions putting electoral reform on to our agenda for the first time in many years. My own sense is that this is an idea whose time has come. Our two-party system – with an occasional walk-on part for a Lib Dem protest vote – may have worked in the postwar decades, but is now irretrievably broken. For those of us whose main commitment to civil society is not though party politics, the chance of a more serious national conversation can only be an opportunity for a more open and fair society."

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/13/labour-attack-tories-austerity-tackle-electoral-reform

What a pity the trades union reps who voted down electoral reform at this years LP conference did not listen to her.

Both Canada and Germany held General Elections in the last week. In both cases, no single party won a majority, but that’s where the similarities end.

In Canada, General Elections use the First the Post System as in the UK. The ruling Liberal Party won 32.6% of the vote, finishing behind the Conservative Party who won 33.7%.
But thanks to First Past The Post, they won 159 of the 338 seats – 40 more than the Conservatives.

In Germany, they use the Additional Member System, similar to what we see in Scottish Parliament and Welsh Senedd elections. The SPD won the popular vote with 25.7%, ahead of the CDU/CSU on 24.1% and the Greens on 14.7%.
The SPD were awarded 206 of the 735 seats, the CDU/CSU won 196 seats and the Greens 118.

We wanted to ask you, which system would you like to see used in future UK General Elections?

Unions vote down local Labour parties’ call to axe first past the post.

Motion to back switch to proportional representation in elections fails at Labour conference

www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/sep/27/unions-vote-down-local-labour-parties-call-to-axe-first-past-the-post

The dinouraurs in the Unions are clearly determined to keep a Tory government, suppported by a minority of voters, in office till the cows come home.

The Labour Party conference will debate electoral reform on Monday after more CLPs call for PR backing than any other issue in recent conference history

labourlist.org/2021/09/more-clps-call-for-pr-backing-than-any-other-issue-in-recent-conference-history/

Yet another outrageous example of this government imposing its will and rejigging local gorvernment in a way which it thinks will advantage the Conservative Party is the proposed unitary authority in Somerset. Somerset is a very large, predominantly rural county and all of the District Councils backed having two unitary authorities covering manageable areas, whereas the Tory run County Council wanted one single authority. An advisory referendum resulted in a resounding 65% in favour of the "Stronger Somerset" scheme proposed by all of the District Councils.

Guess what? Robert Jenrick has over-ruled the result, backing the defeated proposal.

"The countywide unitary council is the preferred option for the future of Somerset, Secretary of State for Housing, Communities and Local Government has announced today (Wednesday, July 21).

That system was the one backed by Somerset County Council.

Mr Jenrick, in a written statement released this evening, rejected a rival suggestion from the county's four district council to set up two separate councils - one in charge of the east of the county, the other covering the western half.

His proposals are expected to be accepted in a vote by MPs and would come into effect in 2023."

"In a joint statement, the leaders of Somerset’s four district councils said: “The Secretary of State is riding roughshod over the people of Somerset who voted 65% to 35% in favour of the Stronger Somerset plan over the other scheme chosen by the Secretary of State.

“That vote was the third time in recent history that the people of Somerset have decisively rejected proposal for a single unitary – following the referendum in 2007 and the Ipsos MORI survey in 2020.

“By ignoring the will of the people, the Secretary of State is breaking the bond of trust between elected representatives and those they represent. The opportunities to address the real challenges our county faces – how to reduce demand on expensive crisis services, to break the cycle of inequality and under-achievement, to invest in local solutions to local issues – risk being squandered by foisting a manifestly unpopular new local government on our residents.

“We are duty bound to represent the interests of our constituents to our fullest ability. We will continue to seek to ensure that their voices are heard. There is still chance for Parliament to see sense and force a rethink. We just cannot understand why the wishes of the people of Somerset are being ignored.”

www.somersetcountygazette.co.uk/news/19459713.somerset-gets-government-backing-one-countywide-council-2023/

The Government’s Elections Bill was finally published this week and it’s every bit as bad as we feared.

It’s a clear attempt to rig the electoral system to favour the Conservative Party.

Our campaign to stop these changes received a welcome boost on Wednesday.

The Committee on Standards In Public Life released their report on Regulating Election Finance. The report contains many recommendations that will improve the way elections work in our country.

Unlock Democracy is writing to the Prime Minister asking him to implement the report’s key recommendations before the next General Election.

Will you add your voice to our call?

Add your support

secure.unlockdemocracy.org.uk/page/86146/petition/1?ea.tracking.id=email&ea.url.id=5399748

I agree that this was what happened in the past Katie59 but just as in the past they felt that you shouldn't teach the servants to read, we now have the inevitable backlash of more educated generations.

What now seems to be happening is that young people remain what was once called left-wing but is far more centrist if you put this government on the far-right where its rhetoric and actions demand. If you don't think they are active, albeit, in specific areas, I wonder what you think of the marches that have gone on, the taking the knee and the Me Too movement? What they are not doing is living in the past as some on the far left would have us. However, if the far left can update itself, who knows what these young to 50-year-olds will support. It could well include electoral reform.

PippaZ

Katie59

A great many of the “I’m alright Jack’s” are the older generation add to that the younger voters who have done well and you have a majority. Most of them don’t care about the “have nots”, that’s someone else’s problem, for those stuck on benefits or minimum wage there is no escape. Housing is worse than its ever been, poverty highest since WW2, don’t see anything changing.
It would help it there was a credible opposition, it’s just over 3 yrs until the next GE, Labour really needs to get its act together now, will they, probably not and the Tories will bluster their way to another 5 yrs.

I don't see any facts backing the younger voters joining in any numbers to those of the older generation you suggest are "I'm alright Jack's". If you look at the picture you will see why I don't think that. This comes from an article titled Britain's Younger Generations are Overwhelmingly Left-Wing.

There is also an interesting article about a survey in the US titled "New Survey Shows Young People Are Staying Liberal and Conservatives Are Dying Off" Liberals in the US are nearer to our left-wing. It mirrors what is happening here too. This is why Johnson will take power however he feels he needs to - no matter what the voters want. He knows their time is limited.

The youngest voters are usually more left leaning if not actively socialist, it was the 30-50 voters that have established themselves that are likely to be conservative minded, that I was referring to.

Katie59

A great many of the “I’m alright Jack’s” are the older generation add to that the younger voters who have done well and you have a majority. Most of them don’t care about the “have nots”, that’s someone else’s problem, for those stuck on benefits or minimum wage there is no escape. Housing is worse than its ever been, poverty highest since WW2, don’t see anything changing.
It would help it there was a credible opposition, it’s just over 3 yrs until the next GE, Labour really needs to get its act together now, will they, probably not and the Tories will bluster their way to another 5 yrs.

I don't see any facts backing the younger voters joining in any numbers to those of the older generation you suggest are "I'm alright Jack's". If you look at the picture you will see why I don't think that. This comes from an article titled Britain's Younger Generations are Overwhelmingly Left-Wing.

There is also an interesting article about a survey in the US titled "New Survey Shows Young People Are Staying Liberal and Conservatives Are Dying Off" Liberals in the US are nearer to our left-wing. It mirrors what is happening here too. This is why Johnson will take power however he feels he needs to - no matter what the voters want. He knows their time is limited.

A great many of the “I’m alright Jack’s” are the older generation add to that the younger voters who have done well and you have a majority. Most of them don’t care about the “have nots”, that’s someone else’s problem, for those stuck on benefits or minimum wage there is no escape. Housing is worse than its ever been, poverty highest since WW2, don’t see anything changing.
It would help it there was a credible opposition, it’s just over 3 yrs until the next GE, Labour really needs to get its act together now, will they, probably not and the Tories will bluster their way to another 5 yrs.

Katie59

I’m enough of a realist to accept that our political system is not going to change, I live in a constituency that returns Tory MP with a 20000 majority. I disapprove of a great many of the policies that have been followed and progressively depleted the UK in the last 50 yrs. All in the name of short term political gain

Mmm. I think there enough far seeing "realists" who know our history and how much the people have fought for a greater degree of democracy. They don't give up just because it's an uphill task. Thankfully there have always been those people, although that will fall more and more to the young now.

Sadly there have also been those who can't see the point in working for the common good. These power-hungry "I'm alright Jacks" have always been here. Unfortunately, we live in a time when they have lied their way into power and are trying to strip us of our hard-won democracy. The older ones in society may not be able to do much. But I will never, I hope, see us surrender our democratic rights and call that realism.

I’m enough of a realist to accept that our political system is not going to change, I live in a constituency that returns Tory MP with a 20000 majority. I disapprove of a great many of the policies that have been followed and progressively depleted the UK in the last 50 yrs. All in the name of short term political gain

Katie59

I’m cynical, because very few politicians vote with their conscience anyone who defies the whip is sidelined, that applies to local and national elections.

So are you saying you don't care? That it would make no difference to you if you lived in China or Russia? Do you only see the cynical side of it all? Don't feel that, as we don't live in such a country, you should be doing something to try and maintain democracy or even, if you think we have sunk so low, do something to recover what has been fought so hard for?

That's very sad to read.

I’m cynical, because very few politicians vote with their conscience anyone who defies the whip is sidelined, that applies to local and national elections.

Katie59

varian

No politician who cynically supports a corrupt voting system to advantage his own party has any right to call himself a democrat.-

Politics is not about democracy it’s about power, no more so than at present

Are you just stating the current situation there, Katie59, or are you being cynical about politics in general?

Don't you think that the ordinary voter should feel that they have a say in the way their country is run?

Or do we just sit back and let our betters slug it out for who is going to be in control? Like they did until the franchise was extended.

varian

No politician who cynically supports a corrupt voting system to advantage his own party has any right to call himself a democrat.-

Politics is not about democracy it’s about power, no more so than at present

Sorry, that was to Mamardoit re Thu 08-Jul-21 16:17:15

I was trying to simplify but I will add in the Brexit party, which stood in the 2019 election.

644,000 votes to elect 1 Brexit MP
38,000 votes to elect 1 Conservative MP

As I understand it in some religions you need the evidence of two women to equal one man's. Do you think that is fair? Or that it should go on because it always has?

In that election, you would need just short of 17 people voting Brexit to be democratically equal to 1 voter voting Conservative. How can that be right or democratic? It doesn't matter that one is pro Brexit and one pro Conservative; it would be wrong whichever party they were voting for. We will disagree with others on politics but I would rather have a democratically elected parliament with a few (or more) that I don't agree with, than an undemocratic one.

Are you really saying you don't care about the lack of democracy?

MaizieD

^I'm sure UKIP/Brexit or whoever comes along will also gain seats. Whatever the system you are going to find those with whom you disagree^.

Well, that isn't a problem, is it, Mamardoit? That's what democracy is all about, giving as much of a voice as possible to all citizens.

Perhaps people would take a bit more interest in keeping their politicians honest if they felt that their vote actually counted.

It's not a problem for me.

Added to the unfairness and unrepresentative nature of FPTP is the' bonus' of people not bothering to vote in a seat with a very safe incumbent, Labour or Tory. Where I live, my vote is 'wasted' as it is a very safe Tory seat, add to this the fact that other parties such as Labour, LibDems, Greens don't bother to put in so much effort to try to win a very safe seat and it becomes even more undemocratic and unrepresentative of the people that live here

I'm sure UKIP/Brexit or whoever comes along will also gain seats. Whatever the system you are going to find those with whom you disagree.

Well, that isn't a problem, is it, Mamardoit? That's what democracy is all about, giving as much of a voice as possible to all citizens.

Perhaps people would take a bit more interest in keeping their politicians honest if they felt that their vote actually counted.

PippaZ

This question is nothing to do with previous votes or politicians who have long left politics. It is simple. Can anyone say, hand on heart, that they think it is in any way democratic that you need:

866,000 votes to elect 1 Green MP
336,000 votes to elect 1 LibDem MP
51,000 votes to elect 1 Labour MP
38,000 votes to elect 1 Conservative MP

If you think that is democrasy then could you explain to me why?

I'm sure UKIP/Brexit or whoever comes along will also gain seats. Whatever the system you are going to find those with whom you disagree.

And I do disagree we do need to remember what the LibDems did. They gave the keys of No 10 to Cameron. The one who gave you a vote on Brexit. Still very relevant IMO.

Having said that I do think FPTP is not a good system.

Nor, to be honest, can any voter Varian

No politician who cynically supports a corrupt voting system to advantage his own party has any right to call himself a democrat.-