Labour party conference, is no-one else interested?

What has the Peter Stefanovic comment got to do with the Labour Party conference?

Peter Stefanovic telling it like it is.

Dinahmo

foxie48

MaizieD

Sorry MaizieD totally missed that!

Not to worry. It's just that I am so used to social media where any mention of Blair is subject to shouts of 'Iraq', as if one, admittedly dreadful, mistake negates all the good that was done by Labour during his government.

What the Ira war demonstrated for me was the unwisdom of tying the UK closely to the USA (seen yet again in the disastrous withdrawal from Afghanistan) and again it points up the foolishness of withdrawing the UK from a powerful bloc which is not so fixated on blindly following where the US chooses to go, in order to cosy up to the US.

I wonder how things would be if they had found WMDs as the Intelligence reports said would be found or if we had not gone to war and WMDs had been used by Saddam Hussein. I would not have wanted to be a decision maker nor would I want to have had to live with the consequences of my decision! Much easier to an old lady pontificating with the benefit of hindsight!

I have been told that there were WMDs but they were American and so the findings were hushed up. I heard this from an American who was a serving soldier at the time but I don't understand why that never came to light.

That's a rather weird story, Dinahmo. Did your informant imply that the US had supplied Hussein with the WMD?

Mind you, not sure I'd completely believe one person's say so..

foxie48

MaizieD

Sorry MaizieD totally missed that!

Not to worry. It's just that I am so used to social media where any mention of Blair is subject to shouts of 'Iraq', as if one, admittedly dreadful, mistake negates all the good that was done by Labour during his government.

What the Ira war demonstrated for me was the unwisdom of tying the UK closely to the USA (seen yet again in the disastrous withdrawal from Afghanistan) and again it points up the foolishness of withdrawing the UK from a powerful bloc which is not so fixated on blindly following where the US chooses to go, in order to cosy up to the US.

I wonder how things would be if they had found WMDs as the Intelligence reports said would be found or if we had not gone to war and WMDs had been used by Saddam Hussein. I would not have wanted to be a decision maker nor would I want to have had to live with the consequences of my decision! Much easier to an old lady pontificating with the benefit of hindsight!

I have been told that there were WMDs but they were American and so the findings were hushed up. I heard this from an American who was a serving soldier at the time but I don't understand why that never came to light.

It was always an illegal war and Blair should have been charged as a war criminal. Instead he became a Middle East peace envoy!

Poor Dr David Kelly wonder what really happened to him?

The report does not question Blair's personal belief that there was a case for war, only the way he presented the evidence that he had.[41] The report cleared the Prime Minister's Office of influencing the Iraq Dossier (the "Dodgy Dossier"), which contained the claim that Iraq possessed the ability to launch WMD within 45 minutes, and instead laid the blame for the weaknesses in its evidence on the Joint Intelligence Committee.[42]

More specifically, the report blamed Secret Intelligence Service (better known as MI6) head Sir Richard Dearlove who presented so-called "hot" intelligence about alleged weapons of mass destruction provided by an Iraqi with "phenomenal access" to high levels in the Iraqi government directly to Blair, without first confirming its accuracy.[43] The investigators found that references to this intelligence in government reports were over-certain and did not adequately stress uncertainties and nuance. The informant was later found to have been lying. The Chilcot report states that "personal intervention [by Dearlove] and its urgency gave added weight to a report that had not been properly evaluated and would have coloured the perception of ministers and senior officials".[44] The day after the report was published, Blair conceded that he should have challenged such intelligence reports before relying on them to justify military action in Iraq.[43][45]

foxie48

MaizieD

Sorry MaizieD totally missed that!

Not to worry. It's just that I am so used to social media where any mention of Blair is subject to shouts of 'Iraq', as if one, admittedly dreadful, mistake negates all the good that was done by Labour during his government.

What the Ira war demonstrated for me was the unwisdom of tying the UK closely to the USA (seen yet again in the disastrous withdrawal from Afghanistan) and again it points up the foolishness of withdrawing the UK from a powerful bloc which is not so fixated on blindly following where the US chooses to go, in order to cosy up to the US.

I wonder how things would be if they had found WMDs as the Intelligence reports said would be found or if we had not gone to war and WMDs had been used by Saddam Hussein. I would not have wanted to be a decision maker nor would I want to have had to live with the consequences of my decision! Much easier to an old lady pontificating with the benefit of hindsight!

There were no WMD the weapons inspector told Blair government, somehow he was found dead shortly after. Then remember the dodgy dossier thought up by who knows who? Then the Chillcot report into the Iraq war by Blair and buddy Bush found Blair mislead parliament

So it was always has been an illegal war

foxie48

MaizieD

Sorry MaizieD totally missed that!

Not to worry. It's just that I am so used to social media where any mention of Blair is subject to shouts of 'Iraq', as if one, admittedly dreadful, mistake negates all the good that was done by Labour during his government.

What the Ira war demonstrated for me was the unwisdom of tying the UK closely to the USA (seen yet again in the disastrous withdrawal from Afghanistan) and again it points up the foolishness of withdrawing the UK from a powerful bloc which is not so fixated on blindly following where the US chooses to go, in order to cosy up to the US.

I wonder how things would be if they had found WMDs as the Intelligence reports said would be found or if we had not gone to war and WMDs had been used by Saddam Hussein. I would not have wanted to be a decision maker nor would I want to have had to live with the consequences of my decision! Much easier to an old lady pontificating with the benefit of hindsight!

You might wonder where Saddam got the weaponary he was supposed to have- particularly chemical weapons. He was sold them by Western countries who wanted them used against Iran (and they were). Possibly that is why Blair thought they were still there
According to Iraqi documents, assistance in the development of chemical weapons was obtained from firms in many countries, including the United States, West Germany, the Netherlands, the United Kingdom, and France. A report stated that Dutch, Australian, Italian, French and both West and East German companies were involved in the export of raw materials to Iraqi chemical weapons factories.

MaizieD

^Sorry MaizieD totally missed that!^

Not to worry. It's just that I am so used to social media where any mention of Blair is subject to shouts of 'Iraq', as if one, admittedly dreadful, mistake negates all the good that was done by Labour during his government.

What the Ira war demonstrated for me was the unwisdom of tying the UK closely to the USA (seen yet again in the disastrous withdrawal from Afghanistan) and again it points up the foolishness of withdrawing the UK from a powerful bloc which is not so fixated on blindly following where the US chooses to go, in order to cosy up to the US.

I wonder how things would be if they had found WMDs as the Intelligence reports said would be found or if we had not gone to war and WMDs had been used by Saddam Hussein. I would not have wanted to be a decision maker nor would I want to have had to live with the consequences of my decision! Much easier to an old lady pontificating with the benefit of hindsight!

Grany what’s stopping him he is not in power

Johnson and his crew, criminals misleading the country.

Starmer should have wiped the floor with this lot made more impact, what is stopping him?

Piers Morgan voted as best at holding government to account before he left the job and so is Marcus Rashford.

I mean Starmer is gifted this lying charlatan Johnson and he should have made much more impact at aposing him.

Blair speaks of Iraq in the ‘Blair Brown’ documentary

Iraq (I've a sticky 'q' key)

Sorry MaizieD totally missed that!

Not to worry. It's just that I am so used to social media where any mention of Blair is subject to shouts of 'Iraq', as if one, admittedly dreadful, mistake negates all the good that was done by Labour during his government.

What the Ira war demonstrated for me was the unwisdom of tying the UK closely to the USA (seen yet again in the disastrous withdrawal from Afghanistan) and again it points up the foolishness of withdrawing the UK from a powerful bloc which is not so fixated on blindly following where the US chooses to go, in order to cosy up to the US.

Because some had ‘a real feeling’ is not proof that the present
leader was complicit in allegedly bringing about the result of
the 2017 election or there was a conspiracy to keep the tories in
power.

Alegrias1

I googled it. Too blooming complicated.

Can you just sort yourselves out before the next general election please?

If the present leader had actually bothered a bit and dealt with the people involved things would have been sorted so much more easily. As it is he's left anyone who was bothered about the 2017 result with a real feeling that not only was there underhand shenanigans but that he actually approved of them. Which basically means that the present leader of the LP was complicit in bringing about the 2017 result and keeping the Tories in power.

Sorry MaizieD totally missed that! I think it's a pity that so many people focus on the Iraq war when they think about the last Labour govt. The LP did lots of very good things which changed the lives of people. They also forget the strength of feeling in the House of commons, the vote was carried 412 - 149, (quarter of labour MPs and the libs voted against). Clearly the majority of MPs that the electorate voted to represent them thought there were WMDs in Iraq. Only Cook resigned from the front bench. I also think Blair genuinely thought there were WMDs and I don't believe he lied, but others do! It's so easy to condemn with hindsight but so is "throwing the baby out with bath water". Has the Western world learned anything since then about interfering in the middle East? Looking at recent events, I'm tempted to say "No".

foxie48

* MaizieD* I haven't forgotten Iraq, my point is a centrist labour govt achieved more than a left leaning but out of govt labour did or indeed ever could. What we will never know is what a Conservative govt would have done in the same circumstances!

It was meant as a joke, foxie48. Sorry, I couldn't quite think how to convey that...

I googled it. Too blooming complicated.

Can you just sort yourselves out before the next general election please?

Alegrias1

People's Front of Judea or the Judean People's Front.

Remember?

Do people really believe that Labour people didn't want Labour to win? Holy smoke.

Alegrias1 there is pleny of documented evidence about this. The right wing officials working in the LP office worked to prevent a Labour win and were very disappointed at how close the vote was. They were suspended and an investigation ordered.. Starmer reinstated them.

People's Front of Judea or the Judean People's Front.

Remember?

Do people really believe that Labour people didn't want Labour to win? Holy smoke.

Lots of people trusted a left Labour in 2017 and the transformattive polices that this country needs. But the right wing in the party was working against a labour victory.

Blair left no lasting legacy all about him and his ego.

* MaizieD* I haven't forgotten Iraq, my point is a centrist labour govt achieved more than a left leaning but out of govt labour did or indeed ever could. What we will never know is what a Conservative govt would have done in the same circumstances!