Any sympathy for pig farmers?

We are the first country anywhere in the world to kill live animals that were bred for and fit for human consumption and throw them away like rubbish.

I can’t begin to understand the immorality of such an act.

Johnson has been warned for months and months. In fact the Tories had 5 years to plan for these sort of issues and we are now seeing the result.

Project Fear predicted everything that is now taking place, but where it was wrong it appears was to forecast a Big Bang of issues, when in fact it has become more of a slow burn, that and covid which has muddied the waters and allowed a convenient peg for Johnson to hang all these issues on.

But every day more people are beginning to wake up to the truth, particularly people who voted for Brexit like the farmers, the well known CEOs of companies, and millions of others.

Brexit isn’t working.

You could weep at the cavalier attitude this man has taken. Here we are with people about to enter probably the most worrying winter for the basics of life that most working people have ever seen and they are throwing food away.

What does he try to do. We should have known. He makes a joke of it.

His attitude is sadly no longer beyond belief - what does that say of this country?

There are several issues here- the immorality of chucking away food, the loss of livelihoods, the welfare of the animals who are kept in cramped conditions then subject to a terrifing death, staff shortages in the processing industry, the importation of EU pork to fill the gaps. I guess my sympathy lies mostly with the pigs, but the lack of planning by the government for the staff shortages and it’s impact on businesses is the thing we should get angry about.

EU workers left at the end of 2020.
They have been slaughtering and processing pigs all through 2021 so why all of sudden has it become a problem?

GrannyGravy13

EU workers left at the end of 2020.
They have been slaughtering and processing pigs all through 2021 so why all of sudden has it become a problem?

The farmers have been warning the government since then.

www.theguardian.com/business/2021/oct/03/boris-johnson-petrol-crisis-and-pig-cull-part-of-necessary-post-brexit-transition

Asked about warnings of the imminent slaughter and incineration of up to 120,000 pigs because of labour shortages across the UK, Johnson initially argued that this was no different from what normally happened to livestock.

Speaking to BBC One’s Andrew Marr show, he said: “I hate to break it to you, Andrew, but I’m afraid our food processing industry does involve killing a lot of animals, that is the reality. Your viewers need to understand that. That’s just what happens.

When Marr pointed out that it would be different, as in this instance the pigs would not be butchered for food and the farmers would receive no income, Johnson said this was part of a wider transformation of the economy post-Brexit.

If I may say so, the great hecatomb of pigs that you describe has not yet actually taken place. Let’s see what happens,” he said.

What we can’t do … in all these sectors is simply go back to the tired, failed old model, reach for the lever called ‘uncontrolled immigration’, get people in at low wages. And yes, there will be a period of adjustment, but that is, I think, what we need to see in this country.

Vile, isn’t it? Not only the patronising tone of his remarks to Marr but his callousness and his notion that low wages are the fault of hard-working people.

No mention of the monster profitable retail organisations who peddle cheap meat from intensive and cruel factory farms, pay employees minimum wage while their directors are paid at a rate of several million a year, retire at 55 to play golf and tennis and are rewarded with knighthoods to boot.

The whole system needs a reboot with regard to food chain, animal welfare and employment practices.

Johnson’s words also remind me of his equally callous utterings about the elderly and Covid:

I must say I have been slightly rocked by some of the data on Covid fatalities. The median age is 82 to 81 for men 85 for women, the messages read.

That is above life expectancy. So get Covid and live longer. Hardly anyone under 60 goes into hospital (four per cent) and of those virtually all survive.

And I no longer buy all this NHS overwhelmed stuff. Folks, I think we may need to recalibrate. There are max 3m in this country aged over 80. It shows we don’t go for nationwide lockdown.

So what if some pigs die? So what if some elderly people die? seems to be his mantra. Reprehensible man.

GrannyGravy13 pigs are killed at 6 months old, it’s a build up. EU agricultural workers tended to come for a while, then go home, then new ones arrived. That chain has stopped and there is no one to take their place, nothing planned to fill the gap. Same for vets who are now in short supply. The government didn’t have a plan and had no advice for businesses other than say pay higher wages which they have started to suggesting in the last few weeks.

staff shortages in the processing industry, the importation of EU pork to fill the gaps

Oh the irony, when Brexiteers were adamant we didn't need foreign labour!

Nothing we can do until the next election. Then we vote them Out! If we don't I really despair for this country

To add to what veganrocks has said.

Pigs grow fast and there is an optimum time to slaughter them. Factory farms optimize weight to get the maximum value. Larger animals can equate to tougher and fattier meat that many consumers don’t want as well as lower market prices for the farmer giving them little return on investment. Some slaughter houses won't accept animals beyond a certain size because of the size of their scalding tanks.

I don’t want to detract from the seriousnes of this discussion but this was a storyline in The Archers end of 2019, early 2020. An abbatoir had failed a Defra inspection and had been closed down precisely when Brookfield’s pigs were due to go to slaughter. I recall David And Ruth discussing the declining meat quality and financial implications if they could not find another abbatoir to take the pigs within the next two weeks.

Disclaimer I am not a fan of Mr.Johnson or some of the decisions made by the current Government.

If the pig farmers were aware of the shortage of abattoir staff and the likelihood of not being able to get their stock processed why didn’t they limit the number of sows breeding ?

GG13 they believed the government when they said all would be hunky dory. Many of them probably voted leave and believed they would be better off and there would be no disruption to trade - which is what we were told.

GrannyGravy13

Disclaimer I am not a fan of Mr.Johnson or some of the decisions made by the current Government.

If the pig farmers were aware of the shortage of abattoir staff and the likelihood of not being able to get their stock processed why didn’t they limit the number of sows breeding ?

They are under contract to produce x amount if pigs. It is not as simple as would first appear.

When Boris said 'F*ck business' he obviously included agriculture.

Those poor pigs. How cruel and wasteful.

I have sympathy for farmers who work so very hard and take pride in producing quality food for our tables. This must be devastating for them.

I just wish they'd had a good hard think before they hammered all those Vote Conservative and Vote Brexit signs into their hedgerows.

Whitewavemark2

GrannyGravy13

Disclaimer I am not a fan of Mr.Johnson or some of the decisions made by the current Government.

If the pig farmers were aware of the shortage of abattoir staff and the likelihood of not being able to get their stock processed why didn’t they limit the number of sows breeding ?

They are under contract to produce x amount if pigs. It is not as simple as would first appear.

I really hope that they are now cutting down on pig production until the situation improves.

This will mean reduced income for British farmers thought won't it? It will also ensure either no pork or more imported pork in future.

Perhaps the need to import food was the aim all along? Trade deal with other countries with lower standards anyone?

Mixed feelings

Long term business planning v burying heads in sand with fingers crossed.

I’m not a fan of pork, I’m not a fan of any mass produced meat or factory farming in any shape. This entire debacle shows that the business model, we as nation have drifted into, is too vulnerable to collapse. If one aspect fails it all fails.
Small family butchers /abattoirs on the premises were all forced to close in favour of the big factory abattoirs. At that point I stopped taking animals to the butchers.
All of HGV related issues were predictable, that people chose to trust in boris over common sense is history. It is what it is now and we need to get on with it. Paying decent wages to all sorts of sectors is way over due, boris is clearly hoping business will spontaneously come to the conclusion that fairer wages and conditions is the answer, I’m more inclined to think businesses need a good shove in the right direction.

The reason they are slaughtered so young isn't just to do with optimum weight/fat, it's because they are clever and once they get any older they become distressed waiting in the queue to be slaughtered as they know what is going to happen

My hope that they are now cutting down on pig production until the situation improves.

I know very little about breeding and killing pigs. So I googled "how old are pigs when they slaughter them" Answer - 4 months to a year, generally.

So 4 months to a year ago, we were being told everything was fine and that in the new Brexit world there weren't any labour shortages. So why would a farmer promised this golden future limit his/her source of income?

But of course now, now that their business model is not just threatened but bazookaed, we think that saying "make fewer pigs" will solve the problem. "Make fewer pigs" means less profit, fewer farmers, more poverty, less food on people's plates.

Do people not think through the implications of things before they post them?

GrannyGravy13

Whitewavemark2

GrannyGravy13

Disclaimer I am not a fan of Mr.Johnson or some of the decisions made by the current Government.

If the pig farmers were aware of the shortage of abattoir staff and the likelihood of not being able to get their stock processed why didn’t they limit the number of sows breeding ?

They are under contract to produce x amount if pigs. It is not as simple as would first appear.

I really hope that they are now cutting down on pig production until the situation improves.

That will take some time, and until the cut back works through there will still be more pigs in the production line than can be processed.

Of course, it's great for EU pig producers who can export already butchered pig products to the UK with no NTBs.

I think it all started with the shortage of CO2 which is used to stun the pigs prior to slaughter, then there's been an issue getting vets to work in abattoirs UK trained vets don't want to do it so many of the vets came from Poland and other EU countries, then there's the added issue of getting trained staff to do the job. It's a perfect storm really. I feel sorry for the pigs and the pig farmers. I'm fortunate enough to be able to buy pork from my neighbour, her pigs are free range and have a happy life, are slaughtered at a small local abattoire, which is as stress free as possible. The meat is lovely, not at all like the supermarket pork.

tbh it has really put me off all pig products. Apparently, and please correct me if I am wrong, as I truly want to know- pigs are normally gassed in huge numbers together, in sight of each other, and screaming as they suffocate. Gas chambers.

I had no idea- I actually thought they were stunned and shot individually, out of sight of each other, 1 by 1.

Can someone please clarify this. As if it is the case, I shall never ever eat pork or bacon again.

GrannyGravy13

EU workers left at the end of 2020.
They have been slaughtering and processing pigs all through 2021 so why all of sudden has it become a problem?

The National Pig Association wrote to the Government detailing the problems in January this year. Their concerns included reduced slaughtering capacity and the risk of pigs being left on farms. www.thepigsite.com/news/2021/01/uks-national-pig-association-writes-to-government-over-brexit-challenges

boris is clearly hoping business will spontaneously come to the conclusion that fairer wages and conditions is the answer, I’m more inclined to think businesses need a good shove in the right direction.

I'm inclined to think that businesses that are losing revenue because of Brexit are hardly going to be in a position to increase wages...

Alegrias1

^My hope that they are now cutting down on pig production until the situation improves.^

I know very little about breeding and killing pigs. So I googled "how old are pigs when they slaughter them" Answer - 4 months to a year, generally.

So 4 months to a year ago, we were being told everything was fine and that in the new Brexit world there weren't any labour shortages. So why would a farmer promised this golden future limit his/her source of income?

But of course now, now that their business model is not just threatened but bazookaed, we think that saying "make fewer pigs" will solve the problem. "Make fewer pigs" means less profit, fewer farmers, more poverty, less food on people's plates.

Do people not think through the implications of things before they post them?

Absolutely I thought before I posted.

Breeding fewer pigs in the short term, until the situation improves is better than continued breeding with no certainty that they will go to processing and highly likely to be culled.

It’s not the best solution, but far better than pigs ending up being incinerated or ending up in landfill.

I am cross that it has come to this by the way.