War crimes in Ukraine

It is absolutely abhorrent maddyone

They have also discovered part burnt bodies of females who have been raped left by the side of roads.

It was on the BBC this morning

I spent some time on the Mumsnet Ukraine thread yesterday evening and went to bed utterly sickened by what I had been reading about the atrocities in the occupied towns. It wasn't that I had been previously unaware, because I had already seen so much on twitter, it just hit me very badly.

But, in all this, I can't help thinking that there have been other atrocities perpetuated world wide that we have barely concerned ourselves with. We seem so helpless in the face of violence and brutality.

BTW The Mumsnet Ukraine threads are excellent. This is the latest:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4519959-Ukraine-Invasion-Part-18?watched=1

It is no surprise that this sort of thing has been going on. It would have surprised me if it hadn't, and I dread to think what the women have been going through.

There is no excuse for it - none - but war is horrible, and always has been.

I know it’s war, and terrible things happen in war, but I can’t understand the mindset of soldiers who rape and execute civilians. Why isn’t the fact that they are at war enough, why do they terrorise and hurt innocent civilians?

I wonder if they have to become dehumanised before they can take part? If it's acceptable to kill, and maim, and destroy (which at some level they have to believe in order to do it) then what can seriously be off the table?

You could be right Doodledog. I cannot believe anyone in their right mind could do these things, but we know they do. Maybe they become desensitised to these horrors.

All that can be done is for every piece of evidence to be recorded and dated and publicised, particularly in Russia, although many won't accept it, and some of the perpetrators will eventually be brought to justice.

The mills of God grind slow but they grind exceeding small

As a parent of a serving officer in our armed forces, I can honestly say that I haven’t heard them or their friends ever discussing becoming desensitised to what they witness.

Bosnia was brutal, and has had a lasting effect on those who served there.

I think it’s all to do with the discipline and training and lower ranking Russian troops appear to have little of either.

It is an unbelievable level of depravity shown by a developed countries army, surely?

I can't even read the mumsnet thread

JaneJudge

It is an unbelievable level of depravity shown by a developed countries army, surely?

I can't even read the mumsnet thread

Cannot disagree, but having read several articles on how the Russian recruits and conscripts are treated in their basic training it’s a recipe for disaster.

They are abused and brainwashed to the point of no return, beaten, made to eat faeces and drink urine. That is not the way a modern civilised country trains it’s forces.

War is brutal. Dehumanising your enemy, especially in the eyes of troops and to some degree in the civilian population too, enables those atrocities to be carried out. That, and creating blind obedience & fear in your militia i.e. if I don't comply I become the victim. It has been happening for years in every war since WW1 in Asia, Africa, Middle East & now probably because it is easier for us to empathise with Ukrainians it is shocking us!

Oh bloody hell, it is just brutal.

Russia has tried to pass this off as fake news saying that the bodies were moving. The BBC has checked and says there is no movement. The men had their hands tied too.
The Russian army are thugs and the level of brutality is appalling.

Just dreadful.

Yes, PECS. That's what I meant. That, plus the fact that the winning side gets to tell the stories makes it easy to think that 'we' would never do that sort of thing. 'We' would (or it would be done in our name).

I haven't read much of this thread because the details are too much to handle. It seems to me, as a lay person, that the whole thing is a war crime. I just hope they are keeping evidence and that we get him.

There was an article on the BBC about a crack Russian regiment that had had many of its soldiers killed. Young men, all of them. For the first time ever when reading about a conflict, I thought, Good. That'll teach them to attack someone else's country. No sympathy.

Doodledog

Yes, PECS. That's what I meant. That, plus the fact that the winning side gets to tell the stories makes it easy to think that 'we' would never do that sort of thing. 'We' would (or it would be done in our name).

Are you actually implying that British Service men/women would tie up enemy civilians and shoot them at point blank range in the head, oh and just for kicks rape the local women then try to incinerate the evidence ?

If you are then you are insulting every member of the Armed Forces currently serving in the U.K.

It's evil.

There has been videos showing small villages where it was quite clear that the innocent population were used as target practice. There poor bodies laying where they were shot. Men women and children.

War crimes every one.

Whatever the outcome, Putin must not be rewarded for his behaviour by giving home the territory he desires.

I read that some Ukrainians have given poisoned pies to the Russians. Some have died and others in hospital. You would use every weapon available to defeat these usurpers.

I haven't read the Mumsnet thread but having heard Rohit Kachroo's report the other day about one particular atrocity I felt even more sickened and can't get it out of my mind.
I won't post it on here, even recalling one girl's ordeal makes me weep.

Pure evil.

grannygravy13 I am afraid there are incidents of very inappropriate behaviour by British military in Iraq. Maybe not on the scale that we have witnessed in other conflicts...but we don't always know.
We have to hope & expect our troops behave in an exemplary manner but be prepared to accept the possibility of wrong doing.

I saw a twitter thread a few days ago about how the young conscripts to the Russian army are systematically brutalised by beatings, rape, humiliation and similar really appalling treatment. I can't find it again. If it is true then it explains a lot about how they are desensitised to humane feelings.

In every war sexual and other violence is used by any army of any nationality. Twas ever thus. Sad but true. It’s naive to think otherwise.