I, for one, don't know where this website would be without............

Loads of winks !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm gonna shut up now.

I am a Christian and proud of it and although your opinion wont change the way i feel, the religion bashing makes me feel very uncomfortable.
I was intending to come to the Birmingham meet up, but this is putting me off very much.
I dont force my beliefs on any one but in turn expect them to respect mine.
I dont often comment on threads because i am not a very confident person and dont like confrontation.
I am sorry if what i have said annoys anyone but i have wanted to speak up for a while about this.

Helmar

Good for you, helmar. Takes guts to speak up, doesn't it. I respect you for that even if I don't respect your beliefs . I hope you understand.

Loads o' winks back, jings

PS I wouldn't let stuff on here put you off going to the Birmingham meet up though. There'll be others who believe the same or similar things to you, and some who don't.

At the Glasgow meet up we had a very interesting discussion about Scottish independence. I think only one out of six of us admitted to actually being a Scottish Nationalist, but that didn't mean we couldn't listen to what she had to say, and to respect her for being herself. It was great.

This is just a making up thread.

Bags knows.

Agree with Bags here. You wouldn't be talking about religion on a meet-up.

Hey bags - I would not say I admitted to actually being a Scottish Nationalist but rather that I declared it proudly!!! I find that it is best to declare an interest or strongly held opinion at the start of a discussion, rather than to keep schtum (sp?) and let people get in deep before pouncing on them.

I recall a meeting of Academics, Social Workers, Mediators and Lawyers (+ me - only there to take the minute) where the participants went off on a tangent for a good 10 minutes, to denigrate my home village and all residents thereof as being beyond redemption and thus best ignored when making policy decisions. Everyone joined in gleefully - each had an anecdote to tell and they laughed and egged each other on until the Chair brought the meeting back to order. With no right to speak I kept my head down, scribbled furiously and plotted revenge. As the meeting ended I asked sweetly and innocently if they wanted that section recorded in the minute. Blank looks until I added that I thought it might upset residents of T. One, laughing said she doubted that any of them would be able to read it. Me - 'Really, well it is one of them who will be writing it'. Red faces and hasty exits, no invite to the pub for me.

Anyway, it taught me a lesson, which I try to apply in life and on Gransnet, to lay your cards on the table at the earliest opportunity. So no starting conversations or threads with a teaser to lead people on and then hitting them with the big reveal. That may give you a momentary feeling of superiority but is no way to win friends and influence people!

Well said, Granny23.

Helmar Please come and meet us in Brum. I will be there and I am the one who was pilloried for standing up for Christians. All sorts of comments were attributed to me which I had not made and I was very hurt but have got over it. I know that one of the attendees is a Christian so you will certainly not be alone. I don't think that anyone would be as provocative face to face as they are on here.

Please speak up when you can. It sometimes seems to me that the non-believers and the left wingers dominate some threads. But if we were all left wing why are the labour party not in power?

Helmar; I gues I'd class myself as an atheist but a methodist friend once told me that I was 'one of the most spiritual people she'd ever know'. I've been to an Alpha course with a friend; it didn't work for me but I met some wonderful people. Please come to Brum; religion isn't an issue in any way [and I'm not sure why it has become one ]. I totally respect anyone's beliefs, as I'm sure most people do.

Good point Alison! But atheism and being left wing are not synonymous. I'm a old fashioned lefty (by the way the Labour party isn't left wing - that may or may not be the reason why it isn't in power) but I am a Christian. We come in all shapes and sizes and, as I'm sure you know, all shades of political and theological opinion.

But I do agree, and I'm not sure who I'm agreeing with here, that robust can sound aggressive and is often counter productive, because if people feel bludgeoned by the tone of the debate / discussion, they will often withdraw from that debate. Calm reason, courteous listening and responding to all the points made, rather than ignoring very valid comments, by a person who is of a different opinion, is far more more likely to achieve mutual respect, mutual listening and mutual understanding, if not agreement.

Helmar I agree with you. These bouts of baiting and bashing are becoming tedious. I too am reconsidering my decision to go to the Birmingham meet up.
The only reason that I am still going is because I have met 2 of the people who will be there and I enjoyed their company very much.
When I first joined Gransnet, only a few months ago, I enjoyed the debates and found them interesting. It was refreshing to communicate with people of my generation who were still feisty and opinionated. Recently, however, the debates have taken a different turn and TBH are dominated by a very small number of Gnetters.
I anticipate an adverse reaction to this posting but hey, whatever it takes.

MiceElf I agree with your post wholeheartedly. Sorry I didn't make mine clear. I meant that these were 2 subjects on which we predominantly get only the non-believers for religion and the left wing on anything political which are probably not representative of the whole. I think the robust manner of some posts puts people off from contributing. I hope this has clarified my feelings.

If debates seem to be dominated by a small group then the rest of you need to post more. A small group only appears to dominate because others don't bother to post.

I'm relatively new and I've had no problem joining in debates.

I don't think the topics are particularly anti-Christian or indeed anti any faith but they do challenge people to explain their faith or lack of it and cause people to reflect on their beliefs which surely is no bad thing.

glitabo you are so right but unofortunately the 'dominant' GNs don't seem to think they are 'baiting and bashing' but are being 'robust'. Please still come, I think all the people who are coming are not the 'difficult' ones and that we will have a great time. I am looking forward to meeting you.

Hey, granny23, and good for you! I enjoyed listening to you. let's meet up again sometime.

Now I'd better go back and read the rest.

Why should people explain their faith ?

Dominant, baiting and bashing, difficult my goodness what a way to describe ladies of a cetain age

glitabo I've been a member for a very long time. 99.9% of the time I am delighted to pop in to GN and contribute and share points of view. I especially love the grin-making, light-hearted posts. Recently, I have become bored with the silly, niggly, childish behaviour that causes upset to other members. From hereon, I shall side-step such issues. Life is too short to court pettiness.

PS granny23, I like it that you are so robust in your nationalism, in spite of the fact that I don't have nationalistic feelings. I have other friends who are robust nationalists as well. Obviously, I wouldn't know they were robust nationalists if they hadn't expressed their views on the subject robustly. Similarly, I wouldn't have known my robustly Mormon friends are robust Mormons if they hadn't done likewise.

Robust !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nobody has to explain their faith, but if they mention it, it's not unreasonable for people to ask them questions, such as why do you believe x or y instead of a or b. If you don't want to answer the questions, then don't. Simple.