Never ends!

Oh hell typos get worse meant dont know what went wrong and kicked him out!

celebgran Sadly these episodes are never nice whatever the circumstances and none of us know what goes on behind closed doors. I can understand your dissapointment of finding out your neice visited your estranged daughter without your knowledge but sadly we have no control over the actions of others as much as we would like to wish otherwise. Perhaps your neice didn't tell you in order to spare your feelings likewise with your sister.
I'm sorry you have to suffer in the knowledge, it's never nice, but not permitting the father access to the girls may only be detrimental to the girls wellbeing; however, as I said, we never know what has gone on behind closed doors.
I wish you well.

ps, I think you and celebgran will get on really well together.

#allamystery

Funy comment jo8?

Ps I do not agree ith my niece cutting off contact it is very sad and I hope the girls dad wins contact sadly he can't afford solicitor and my sis paying for one not really fair.

I don't intend fall out with my niece just sad she did not feel able to tell me .

Celebgran - I understand your dissapointment, I would think we would all feel much the same in the circumstances. Let's hope the girls welfare and needs are put before any bickering between the adults concerned.
Life is far too short for arguments so I understand you not wanting to fall out with your neice. If only everyone could be honest and transparent then perhaps arguments would not happen and the innocents, children, would not suffer as a result.
I hope it all works out for you.

Thanks ps well I don't want lose any more of my family !
Unless the little ones dad one something awful I really don't agree with using children as pawns so very shortsighted and wrong IMO children need their dad

Very much so celebgran children do need contact with both parents if at all possible. I believe they then have a balanced view of life. That's not to say a single parent would not produce a well balanced child, I know some who have, but the contact eliminates the need to wonder who the father or mother was and all the associated soul searching that brings to a young mind when they should be concentrating on other things such as academic study.
For your neice to feel the need to kick her partner out one would assume he did something that was unacceptible to her but we never know do we. Let's hope the girls are not adversly affected by it all.

I can't imagine any of my grandchildren being denied contact with their fathers. It would absolutely devastate them. It is very cruel to use children as pawns.

To also suddenly deny them seeing a grandparent who they have spent time with and love is also just as low. It says a lot about someone who has so little regard about their own children's emotional welfare.

Where are the children's rights?

Celeb I can understand you are feeling hurt and sympathise about the current problems with your niece, but I think she has every right to visit family members - even your estranged daughter if she wishes. It is very dangerous and destructive to all concerned to draw up "battle lines" of who may speak to whom and she did not need to consult you or ask for any permission. I hope I have not misunderstood the situation if so, I apologise, but you seem to be tearing yourself apart.

Graces mum you may misunderstand our daughter cut us off overnight with no reason not question of battle lines just common decency my niece has been very cruel knowing how devastated we are she should at least have told us! We don't have a problem if she wants see her but not lying to us about it.

Her own brother refuses to contact her after her appalling treatment of her parents which should give you a clue. Far too much happened last 4 yeas to explain but that is gist of it.

There is such a thing as family loyalty not question of battlegrounds.
Hope that makes it clearer?

Faye you are very right here children don't have rights apparently it s all bout their mothers seeking revenge!

Graces mum e.g. We went see my niece little ones in their Xmas play and had lovely time but according to her ex she busted my daughter week earlier and did not mention it. I find that very upsetting.

They were not particularly close before the split my daughter would not invite her to her wedding even!
Very strange. My s I law rang round cutting all other family members off also so maybe you can see now it is not question of asking our permission more rather strange thing to do.
We were pretty close is my only niece was there right after broth of each of my great nieces and keep close contact. Or rather did will not feel same now.

Meant visited damn iPad!

I am hearing so much hurt, celeb and I had read about your daughter's estrangement but still feel your niece has not necessarily lied to you, just omitted to tell you- who knows why, probably because she knew it would upset you. She is an individual in her own right and there is no reason why she can't make her own decisions in this area. yes it is hurtful, but surely better for some of the fdamily to be in touch rahter than everybody ostracising your DD? You say your SIL rang round cutting off all other family members? These feeling clearly run very deep.That is terribly sad and one wonders what he hoped to gain from it.
As to the issue of her split-up with her partner I swould not wish to comment - you know them and I do not.

You are right graces mum no one set out to ostracise our daughter but when our s I law went to police over us delivering present for our gd first birthday naturally our son objected as did Rest family.

No one knows why and we wish to god we did I think if you were in my shoes and glad for you that you not but you would feel differently.

I am glad she seen my daughter just very sad she lied because I asked her direct in march.

Hard to be pleased about that!