Dialects and lazy speech - there is a difference

I speak much the same as "for'ee" five, as do most people I know, due the fact that we're all from the same area.

I think it's picky to suggest we're all lazy, but there will be plenty who agree with you.

I had the misfortune to need to phone a BT call centre the other day. Much of the speech was like that, half of it was incomprehensible to me. It wasn’t any kind of accent, it was the sheer speed at which they were speaking which led them to slurring their words.

I think they may have targets to meet but if someone is asking them to repeat half of what they say, it’s difficult to see how that can save time.

In the case of the Beeb, I’m sure it’s quite a deliberate thing - I assume they’re terrified of putting off what they probably like to call ‘ordinary people’ by having all ‘posh sounding’, i.e. RP speaking, presenters.

I’ve often thought that this or that presenter who I’m sure wouldn’t normally do it, must have been told to drop the odd T on purpose, in order to sound more ‘ordinary’.

There are plenty of accents and dialects that 'drop' certain letters or words.

I had my speech 'corrected' so much that I now only speak a 'received' version of my natural speech. This is also slightly to do with the fact that in my adult life I moved around, which knocks the corners off a local accent.
Everywhere I went 'posh' people would tell me 'oh it's not a proper accent they speak here, it's just lazy'. No-one seemed able to define a 'proper accent'.

Now I am back where I belong, and 'local historians' want us to record 'old folk' talking, so our 'lovely local speech' is not lost, dropped letters & ungrammatical constructions and all!
I feel patronised, as if only middle-class people get to decide whose speech is worthy.

Sorry, Franbern, it's a real 'red flag' for me!! And I have lived in areas where the dropped 't' is a feature of the speech.
Of course I don't dispute your right to be irritated by certain ways of speaking.

It’s called a ‘glottal stop’
Common in Estuary English

Years ago presenters had to have a certain type of voice and clear pronunciation to work for the BBC.
That is still true mostly for newsreaders but many of the general public have regional accents so a mix of accents is surely a good thing.

I don't have a problem with dialect, it's what makes the language varied. However, I do think that there are times when it's appropriate (as when talking with other speakers of the same dialect) and times when it's not (when speaking to people who don't speak the same way). It must be very difficult for non-native speakers of English to understand what's being said. Consequently I think it's an advantage to be able to moderate one's dialect in certain circumstances (and that doesn't necessarily mean using RP).

I have no desire to change how I speak we had more than enough of the wee dictators who tried to alter our language when we were at school.
As long as there are people language will vary ,sometimes from one side of the river to the other .Neither is wrong or bad .
This need to make us all sound the same is ridiculous .
I had an amazing teacher in P6 who was happy to not only let people speak naturally but explined the similarities in mant Europen words to ones we used daily ,wean and watter being two I remember .
There were thousands of young people who were denied the right to speak in their native tongue in Scotland and forced to speak English because that what the master at Westminster thought we should do .Consequently they grew up almost scared to speak it outside their homes.
ANYONE who thinks thats either right or just needs to look at themselves.Keep your idea of whats the RIGHT way to speak to yourselves enough harm has been done

For goodness sake! This sort of comment is snobbish nonsense. There's no such thing as 'lazy speech' just speech! Humans spoke long before language was written down and others felt that they should judge others'spoken language.
If people feel they need to put on a particular way of speaking that alone says something about them.
Communication matters. It's good to talk.
Who are GNers to police how others speak?!

It’s called a ‘glottal stop’ Common in Estuary English

Yes, Tony Blair adopted it occasionally when he was in office.

By the way paddyann who is this 'master at Westminster' who says we had to speak a certain way? Unfortunately you undermined your point.

Practically my first day at Grammar school I had my speech corrected by a teacher in front of the entire class. It was one word and definitely a widely used local pronunciation. I just wanted to curl up and die. I had to remain standing at the front of the class while she gave a mini lecture on how ‘common’ people spoke. Common people like me, as Jarvis Cocker famously said.

This view seems beyond picky- it seems very judgmental. I sincerely hope you do not actually go around “correcting” children’s “lazy” speech. People speak differently-always have, always will.

It doesn't bother me
I suppose I am one of those posters now that has come on a thread to say I am not bothered about what the original post is on about. But I also think some people struggle so much with communication and language and indeed speech that I don't believe differences in speech are that important, especially in a multi cultural society.

Blossoming
For the first year at grammar school we had elocution lessons. I still remember the poem we had to 'pronounce properly'.
None of us benefited from it and carried on speaking as we always had.

Blossoming

Practically my first day at Grammar school I had my speech corrected by a teacher in front of the entire class. It was one word and definitely a widely used local pronunciation. I just wanted to curl up and die. I had to remain standing at the front of the class while she gave a mini lecture on how ‘common’ people spoke. Common people like me, as Jarvis Cocker famously said.

Snap I was pulled up for saying me own instead of my own.
If I were to say forty in my dialect it would be foty not forty and yan instead of one.
We were just taught to try and speak good English but as DH comes from the same area we have reverted to talking in dialect .I think an accent is fine but using dialect words that are peculiar to an area is not right on the T.V.

There's a lovely line in The Pitman Painters where a miner asks the tutor "D'ye dee art?" eventually it gets translated properly to help him.
I like accents and dialects and some of them involve dropping letters. So actually
Aa diven kna

I preferred the BBC announcers when they spoke a standardised English. Not like the Queen fifty years ago, just good RP.

My own accent is Scottish filtered with Yorkshire. I have never once felt that it was in any way inferior to RP, I don't need to hear it modelled on TV to feel validated.

paddyann54

I have no desire to change how I speak we had more than enough of the wee dictators who tried to alter our language when we were at school.
As long as there are people language will vary ,sometimes from one side of the river to the other .Neither is wrong or bad .
This need to make us all sound the same is ridiculous .
I had an amazing teacher in P6 who was happy to not only let people speak naturally but explined the similarities in mant Europen words to ones we used daily ,wean and watter being two I remember .
There were thousands of young people who were denied the right to speak in their native tongue in Scotland and forced to speak English because that what the master at Westminster thought we should do .Consequently they grew up almost scared to speak it outside their homes.
ANYONE who thinks thats either right or just needs to look at themselves.Keep your idea of whats the RIGHT way to speak to yourselves enough harm has been done

But it is 2022 now!
I like to be able to 1st hear some one on tv or radio speak clearly, and secondly, understand what they say.

AGAA4 elocution lessons wouldn’t have bothered me. Being shamed did.

The tricky thing about speech in England is that it’s class based, and that makes some people very touchy about it. RP is the same all over the country, whereas local accents are, well, local. I’m not including Scotland or Wales in this, because they are different countries with their own standards.

I like to hear good, clear RP. I just find it pleasing to the ear, and it can be understood by everybody.

I come from an area that had a strong accent and my mother ensured that I spoke the Queen's English by sending me to elocution classes where I also learned to project my voice and speak clearly [especially useful when I've had to talk in public in a large area]. I do cringe when I hear what I call 'slovenly' speech but I enjoy listening to accents - that's part of life.

Sparklefizz

^It’s called a ‘glottal stop’ Common in Estuary English^

Yes, Tony Blair adopted it occasionally when he was in office.

Yes, and in Norwich too. No idea how it made its way up there from London, but... I read it in text book, many years ago, no not a new thing.

Accents are a wonderful thing. And it's snobbish to call it lazy speech.

Oh! I forgot. An example of snobbishness in action in relation to speech.

A teacher friend was once marked down for her speech during a lesson observation. For pronouncing film, fil-lum. The local dialect. Which all the students also spoke. By a middle class leader who thought it sounded common.

What an ar*e.