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Paying for elderly care: Q&A with Which? Elderly Care

(37 Posts)
LucyGransnet (GNHQ) Mon 21-Mar-16 11:03:45

Alex Neill, Director of Campaigns and Communications at Which? Elderly Care, will be answering your questions on all aspects of financing elderly care, including eligibility for attendance allowance, moving parents into nursing homes, thresholds for when a local authority might pay for care and more.

(Note that Alex can only provide information about practical issues and for specific financial advice will have to recommend people seek advice from an independent financial adviser before making a decision.)

Alex Neill has worked at the consumer champion for over eight years. As a regular spokesperson for our high profile campaigns, she works to make consumers as powerful as the organisations they deal with in their day-to-day lives, and speaks about consumer issues ranging from personal finance to elderly care.

Which? Elderly Care gives free, independent and practical advice about caring for older people across the UK. Aimed at relatives, the site focuses on financing care, housing options and older people's needs, such as dealing with memory problems and accessing local authority and NHS care and support.

There is also a section for family carers, giving information about benefits, the carer's assessment and how to arrange respite care.

A care services directory is searchable by postcode for care homes, domiciliary care providers and local authority services for older people across the UK. In addition, a specially developed tool allows users to narrow down the wide-ranging information on the site to suit their particular needs.

Add your questions for Alex Neill by midday on 4 April and we'll have the answers up shortly after.

PB Mon 21-Mar-16 11:33:13

If you have more than the agreed amount of savings, which I believe is £23K+ and find a suitable care home, what happens when you run out of money? Would the local authority move you to a cheaper, maybe less suitable home? This is assuming a spouse is living in the family home.

StaffordStag Mon 21-Mar-16 11:34:56

My mother at 98 recently went into a residential home leaving vacant our family home. Whist the building's structure has been well maintained the last time it saw a paint brush was in about 1975! Therefore it is need of serious decorating and to an extent investment in modern heating system etc. In your view is it worth doing the property up and then either selling it or renting it out using the income to offset her Residential fees? If we let it our plan is to manage it on her behalf. I appreciate we would need to take legal advice and conform to all manner of codes of practice etc but letting houses is in the blood for my mother - who is now living comfortably off the proceeds of early years property/letting investment.
In anticipation of your help, thank you.

bartonlady Mon 21-Mar-16 11:35:13

Is there any benefit in buying an annuity now for elderly care. My husband is 72 I am 66 years old. We are fit at present but don't have any children. We are concerned that although we have savings and own our own house, we don't want to run out of money in the future and not be able to fund care.

SpeedyEdi Mon 21-Mar-16 11:39:56

I would want to know the position re the purchase of an annuity as well. Can she explain the difference between English and Scots law.

BibiB Mon 21-Mar-16 11:44:39

Alex, I've been paying a third party contribution of £886 per month for my mother's residential home since last July. It is financially crippling and was sneaked in under my radar by the local authority without me realising what I was letting myself in for. I've asked for a review and they have agreed. Is there any chance I could get back the money I have already paid, over five grand!?

Dandibelle Mon 21-Mar-16 12:15:52

What is the difference between attendance allowance and care allowance. Can both be claimed or just one or the other?

grannybuy Mon 21-Mar-16 12:22:02

When the local authority charge, does any money in the name of the 'fit' spouse come into the case? (Scotland)

DollyTed Mon 21-Mar-16 15:12:31

My husband will soon be needing to be moved to a nursing home. We have no savings to speak of. I will be staying in our home. If I should die would my husbands fees then have to come from the sale of the house? Or, if I needed to go into care while my husband is alive and in care, would the house be used for both our fees? Thank you.

SueGWarks Mon 21-Mar-16 20:11:29

I've read recently about investing in a buy-to-let room in a care home which you can then use yourself when the time comes. Is this a good idea and a safe investment? We are thinking of down sizing in the near future and wondered if this might be a solution to care home fees.

Kjnicholl Tue 22-Mar-16 10:27:39

My Mum has recently been diagnosed with mixed dementia and I want her to come and live with me. If we sell her property and hold the money in case of her eventually needing to go into a care home, can I draw an income from the proceeds of the sale to cover the cost of caring for her myself?

MiniMouse Tue 22-Mar-16 10:48:50

The most worrying aspect can occur when someone has to go into care and a decision has to be made regarding 'Continuing Care', particularly if the person needing care is a home-owner.

There is a massive backlog of hundreds of cases in Sussex regarding people not being properly assessed at the correct time and families having to fight to get an assessment done. This has left families paying out of their own pockets, believing that when the assessment is done they will be reimbursed, but waiting years for a final decision - and then finding that they do not qualify for reimbursement. Others have sold the person's home in a frantic rush, at a knockdown price just to release the money within the three month time limit that has been foisted on them (This was on BBC Radio Sussex this morning)

What should families do in this situation?

Nan67 Tue 22-Mar-16 13:31:26

Is it always the case that a home owner's property must be sold to pay for care should it become necessary? What happens if the property doesn't sell quickly enough? Who foots the bill for the ongoing care?

Nana3 Wed 23-Mar-16 08:36:04

My Mum has less than the £23, 250 in savings but I was told during her assessment that she has to contribute because her savings are at the top end of this limit. Huge bills keep coming.
So this figure is a myth isn't it?

I discovered top up fees paid for by the family when my mum went into care, for the best care homes they are huge, can I use her savings to pay them?

Also care homes charge a huge range of fees, so choice is only for the wealthy, most LCC care homes are full, it's inevitable that if you need care you will pay all you have isn't it?

I know too late about making the right provision in your will, leaving money in trust, also safeguarding some of the value of the house. Not leaving everything to your spouse so that the children have no legacy after everything is taken in care home fees. My parents did non of that. But what is your opinion on how we prepare our finances for future care?

Thank you in anticipation for helping with such worrying financial issues for families.

Izabella Wed 23-Mar-16 11:20:35

What happens please for the following scenario:
Pensioners with a mortgage, house in one name only
No savings

What would the choices be if any, should one need care? Thank you

Regalo Thu 24-Mar-16 09:08:49

Although both fit and healthy, I would like to know how we can ensure that our family receive at least some of the proceeds from our house rather than it go into care home fees. Our house is in both our names and at present our wills leave the estate to each other and on both our deaths it is to be shared equally amongst our children. We have worked hard in our lives and want to ensure that there is a legacy safeguarded for the family. How do we achieve this?

loopyloo Thu 24-Mar-16 21:13:48

Continuing care is a nonsense and should be scrapped. CCGs do all they can to avoid it .There should be no artificial division between social and health care. You have to have legal clout to fight the CCGS.

carole01 Mon 28-Mar-16 12:33:51

We dont own property but we have sole savings accounts (Isa's and Premium bonds) if one of us needs to go into a care home would the local authority have legal access to the others savings accounts.

Nana3 Sun 03-Apr-16 09:02:02

regalo My OH and I have the same will as you and we are seeing a solicitor to change it. They go through all the financial advantages of leaving half the value of the house in trust for your children.

Liz46 Sun 03-Apr-16 18:39:27

Much of the money from my mother's house went on care home fees.

Our situation is that we are second time married. We own our home as tenants in common with my husband leaving his share of the house to his children and me to mine. The surviving partner has the right to live in the house as long as it is maintained. We have a joint account for bills but all our savings are kept separate and left to our children, not each other.

Does this sound sensible please?

AlexNeill Wed 06-Apr-16 15:40:06

PB

If you have more than the agreed amount of savings, which I believe is £23K+ and find a suitable care home, what happens when you run out of money? Would the local authority move you to a cheaper, maybe less suitable home? This is assuming a spouse is living in the family home.

The first thing to do is to contact your local authority to ask them to reassess your needs (if you haven't been assessed already, everyone is entitled to have one, regardless of how your fees are being paid) and also do a financial assessment. If the local authority then has to step in to pay your fees, you might have to move to a cheaper care home where the local authority is paying for rooms.

However, as well as showing that the new care home will meet your assessed eligible needs, the council also needs to carry out a risk assessment. The purpose of this is to check that such a move won’t affect your wellbeing, whether this is physical, social or mental.

After all these assessments, it might be the case that the local authority determines you should stay in your current care home. They should then increase their payment rate to cover the higher fees.

AlexNeill Wed 06-Apr-16 15:43:28

StaffordStag

My mother at 98 recently went into a residential home leaving vacant our family home. Whist the building's structure has been well maintained the last time it saw a paint brush was in about 1975! Therefore it is need of serious decorating and to an extent investment in modern heating system etc. In your view is it worth doing the property up and then either selling it or renting it out using the income to offset her Residential fees? If we let it our plan is to manage it on her behalf. I appreciate we would need to take legal advice and conform to all manner of codes of practice etc but letting houses is in the blood for my mother - who is now living comfortably off the proceeds of early years property/letting investment.
In anticipation of your help, thank you.

While we can't comment on your specific case, you are right to take legal advice and many care home residents do let out their own home. It is a good way to increase income and reduce the rate at which savings are used up, but it's important that you consider what would happen if there are periods when the property isn't let.

Regardless of whether your mother is a self-funder or council-funded, you should be aware of something called 'deliberate deprivation of assets' with respect to the cost of investing in your mother's home. This is where a person deliberately disposes of assets to increase eligibility of for local authority funding, although not all disposal of assets is deliberate deprivation, of course.

The local authority might be fine with you investing in your mother's home if you plan to increase the value and sell it immediately. However, if you let it out and there is still a shortfall in rent that the local authority have to meet (whether this is now or in the future once your mother's savings run down to £23,250), they may argue the money should have been used on care costs rather than investing in a home she no longer lives in.

AlexNeill Wed 06-Apr-16 15:44:47

bartonlady

Is there any benefit in buying an annuity now for elderly care. My husband is 72 I am 66 years old. We are fit at present but don't have any children. We are concerned that although we have savings and own our own house, we don't want to run out of money in the future and not be able to fund care.

An immediate needs care plan is a type of insurance policy that provides you with a regular income in exchange for a lump sum investment, rather like a standard retirement annuity. The sum you receive is used to meet the cost of paying for residential care if you need to pay for care immediately.

That all sounds well and good, but the downside to purchasing an immediate needs care plan is the fact that insurers base their pricing on how long they expect someone going into care is likely to live for. So while an immediate needs annuity brings peace of mind, there is also the risk of 'wasted' premiums if you die prematurely. Of course, you may feel that the peace of mind that comes from knowing you won't run out of money makes this a price worth paying.

The cost of an annuity like this varies considerably between provider and also depending on your health and age. Discuss your options with a specialist independent financial adviser who holds a CF8 qualification, which is the minimum qualification that an IFA advising on long-term care should have. We also suggest that you look for an IFA with the Society of Later Life Advisers (SOLLA) accreditation.

You can also insure against premature death by buying a guarantee, which returns 50% of the outlay on the early death of the person insured, but the cost can be prohibitive.

AlexNeill Wed 06-Apr-16 15:46:08

SpeedyEdi

I would want to know the position re the purchase of an annuity as well. Can she explain the difference between English and Scots law.

You can purchase an immediate needs care plan in Scotland, but there are other factors that would need to be taken into account, which we outline here. There are many differences between the care funding process in England and the system in Scotland due to different pieces of legislation being in place. However, the key differences are:

• For those who have been assessed as needing personal care by their local authority, residents in Scotland are entitled to a personal care allowance of up to £171 per week (2015/16) without a financial assessment.
• The upper capital limit, the point at which you may be eligible for means-tested care funding, in Scotland is £26,250 (in England this figure is £23,250).
• If you require nursing care, you are entitled to a non means-tested contribution of £78 in Scotland, this figure is £112 in England.

Further differences exist in the assessment for care services and care funding eligibility and we would therefore always suggest speaking to an expert in Scottish community care law to discuss how the rules might apply to you.

AlexNeill Wed 06-Apr-16 15:48:09

BibiB

Alex, I've been paying a third party contribution of £886 per month for my mother's residential home since last July. It is financially crippling and was sneaked in under my radar by the local authority without me realising what I was letting myself in for. I've asked for a review and they have agreed. Is there any chance I could get back the money I have already paid, over five grand!?

While we can't comment on your specific case, you're doing the right thing asking your local authority for a review. You might also find our page on third-party top-up fees helpful as we explain when they can and can't be paid, among other issues. If following the review you are still unhappy, you might find it helpful to see our information about challenging a local authority decision.