Gransnet forums


Parents taking the responsibility

(24 Posts)
glammanana Sat 14-May-11 16:13:32

To-day I have read in a few of the daily papers the
reports of the two young girls given "ASBOs" for
the alleged disruption and misery they have caused on a housing estate on the outskirts of Blackburn
Lances.AIBU in thinking that the parents should
shoulder the blame for the damage and misery
caused as the girls are under their control until
they reach the age of 18,Im sure if the cost of
fines and damage came out of the parents pocket
things would improve quickly,or am I being nieve

grannyrosie Sat 14-May-11 21:14:35

I think you are right glammanana, but if the parents are on benefits they probably wouldn't be able to afford the fines.

Joan Sun 15-May-11 04:38:56

I read that same thing. It was horrific, how these girls behaved, and their parents were in complete denial.

I think the police should come down hard on the girls as the parents have abdicated responsibility. Totally innocent people have had their lives made miserable by these girls, but if the victims had taken the law into their own hands, they would have been demonised.

So there is no-one left to deal with the little horrors but the police. There are laws in place which the police could use, but they seem to wait forever before doing so.

Leticia Sun 15-May-11 08:04:44

I am sure that you are right, however the responsible parent, who would pay fines, wouldn't have let them do it in the first place-even if they had the money it would be difficult to enforce.
I would certainly force the parents onto a parenting course-and stop any benefits if they didn't turn up.

Joan Sun 15-May-11 08:33:37

I agree, Leticia. It's just that over the years I've despaired at the bad parenting you see all the time.

Leticia Sun 15-May-11 08:53:39

I think that it would be much easier to force them onto a parenting course by withholding money than to try and extract money. They might even change their ways with discussion and help.

glammanana Sun 15-May-11 11:20:33

Thanks for the thoughts girls,i thought that maybe I was being unfair
to the parents,but when I read that one of the fathers had served in
the Army for 17years I thought hang on here this guy must know what
type of behaviour is not acceptable.I would definatley go down the route of reducing benifits till problems where solved,you have to be careful though in case other children in the family are financially affected
but looking at these two girls they eould not care at all.

supernana Sun 15-May-11 11:44:02

I agree with Leticia's suggestion. As a six year old child, my friend and I "broke into" a derelict cottage in order to have a scary adventure [Secret Five style]. We were spotted, and by the time we returned home, the local policeman's bike was propped by my front door. I got such a telling off and have never forgotten the look of utter dismay on the face of my parents. The point is...I respected my parents, teacher, policeman...and all others in authority. So what has gone wrong?

nanafrancis Sun 15-May-11 11:50:14

You said what has gone wrong in one word, Supergran. Respect is what is missing.

Joan Sun 15-May-11 11:53:49

Authorities have had all their 'authority' stripped away over the years, partly because so many of us remember the utter cruelty that existed in some of our own childhoods, and we supported reforms. Now the pendulum has swung too far the other way.

I'm glad that teachers are no longer allowed to cane or slipper kids - some of those teachers enjoyed it too much for one thing! And I can't see it helping kids to learn - rather the opposite. But teachers must be allowed to impose discipline in their classes without parents coming along to complain that they upset their little darlings.

Parents should be allowed to discipline their own children too, without being censured for it. A quick smack on the bum has stopped many a naughty child in its tracks. This is not the same as caning at school, and it should never descend into beating a child.

What I'm trying to say is that somewhere along the line common sense has vanished.

PoppaRob Sun 15-May-11 12:27:49

Lack of consequences and too many people telling kids they can do anything. Life revolves around rights and responsibilities.

When I was growing up I was shitscared had a healthy respect of for my teachers, my headmaster, my Dad, the police and the local priest. Looking back most of the teachers had a firm but kind hand, my headmaster was a totally delusional wanker an overbearing old-fashioned fire and brimstone priest and Mason, my Dad meant well but was cast in the same mould as my headmaster, the police wanted to keep the peace and maintain law and order - nothing more and nothing less, the local priest was a good guy but also into the fire and brimstone which helped make me the atheist I am today. The important thing was if we crossed the line there would be consequences, whether that was detention, a caning, a smack on the bum, or withholding of something I enjoyed like playtime or icecream or my freedom. As Joan said, the pendulum has swung too far the other way.

glammanana Mon 16-May-11 13:54:20

I am now going to keep scanning the papers to see what happens to the
two girls involved in the Blackburn incident,but as we all know this kind of behaviour is going on on a daily basis all over the Country and very
little is done as a lot of people are to scared to speak out because
of the consiquences they may endure,which is a pretty sad of affairs

glammanana Mon 16-May-11 13:56:15

Should read "pretty sad state of affairs" (blonde day) sorry folks

glammanana Fri 20-May-11 22:45:18

It has been reported in newspapers to-day that these two girls
involved are to be given days out at activity centres which will include
canal trips and also visits to the cinema,what kind of punishment is
this and what message is this kind of reward sending to the young
people who commit these crimes.I wonder if the area was more
affulent would the punishment be any differant or have we all got to
be seen as being "PC" as regarding the sentence,my feeling are with the
neighbours of these girls who maybe thought that a term in custody
may have given them a certain amount of respite from the frightening
attacks they have had on their properties

Joan Thu 26-May-11 14:47:40

I suspect the idea behind all this soppy treatment is that they are trying to civilise the girls. However, these girls have no respect for anyone and will be laughing at the people trying to help them.

I can't help thinking that a 'boot camp' system would work better, putting them through several weeks of harsh outdoor endurance training, run with strict discipline, leaving no room for the girls' bullshit.

But of course, the authorities will take any easy , and probably relatively cheap option they can come up with.

dida Fri 27-May-11 23:16:19

I'm not 'up' with the Blackburn case, so may be barking up the wrong tree, but I do know that when children (over age 10) and young people are prosecuted and convicted, their parents can be compelled by a 'parenting order' to undergo a parenting course, as part of the sentence. Also when young people,16 and under, are given 'referral orders' a parent must attend all the meetings of the youth panel with them. When financial penalties, costs or compensation are awarded against convicted young people, who have no income of their own, the parents are liable to pay, whether or not they are on benefits.
The problem with ASBOs is that they are civil, not criminal justice measures; it is only the breaching of an ASBO that is a criminal matter. ASBOs are often given for behaviour that may well be criminal, but which may be difficult to prove 'beyond reasonable doubt', in a trial,which would require people to come forward as witnesses and for their evidence to be tested in court and so on.
While just as distressed by the minority of young people, who by their behaviour cause so much fear and upset, as everyone else, I do think it is very important for us to remember that these 'monsters' do not suddenly spring up 'fully-formed' at the age of 13, 14, 15 or whatever, but
are the products of a complex mix of social, economic, and emotional factors, going back in many cases to their earliest years. Please don't misunderstand me - of course I believe in personal and parental responsibility, but recognise that many children and young people start from a greatly disadvantaged base, when it comes to developing the self-respect, empathy and respect for others, required to be a mature responsible member of society, especially when, in many cases, their parents haven't developed these qualities.

harrigran Fri 27-May-11 23:32:05

A lot of people of our generation were brought up in very difficult times with little money and abscence of fathers, but how many of us turned out to be criminals ? Sometimes people do offend just because they can.

grannyactivist Fri 03-Jun-11 10:16:36

Well said dida; these are very complex issues. During the Thatcher years we were told there is no such thing as 'society' and were encouraged to think in terms of 'I', 'me' and 'mine'; now we're reaping the consequences. Parents are often busy making ends meet (or not!) and take the line of least resistance with their parenting. Communities think it's the parents' job to raise children, parents blame schools for a lack of discipline and societal norms have been replaced with an 'anything goes' approach. I taught parenting classes for many years and have seen a generation of parents (usually mothers) who themselves have been raised on a diet of TV soaps and reality shows and think what is depicted is 'normal' life.

What to do?
1) Begin with a school curriculum that gives as much weight to life skills as it does to academic subjects. All young people will eventually have to manage budgets and relationships; as adults they will cook, clean - and most will have childcare responsibilities. Knowing quadratic equations is not going to help them!
2) Attach child benefits to attendance at parenting classes. These could be run annually in six week blocks at evenings or weekends.

And my final thoughts? Some parents work very hard to raise their children within a solid moral framework and yet we all know families who, despite their best efforts, have 'problem' children.

crimson Fri 03-Jun-11 15:47:31

Can only agree wholeheartedly with the last paragraph.

glammanana Fri 03-Jun-11 21:56:51

Thanks to everyone for their input on this subject,I will try and keep
up to date with what happens

poppy07 Sun 26-Jun-11 23:36:53

I think that the most caring and loving parents can have problems with their children. It is easy to classify difficult children and condemn their parents as being uncaring or feckless. A little more compassion may not come amiss

grannyactivist Mon 27-Jun-11 01:21:34

I agree poppy07; see my last paragraph. smile

baggythecrust! Mon 27-Jun-11 06:32:10

I agree with GA and poppy. There is no pat cause and no easy solution. The parents I know do discipline their kids without hitting them. They use things like 'sanctions'. For instance, on more than one occasion individual members of my Cub Scout Pack have not been allowed to attend Cubs one week as a punishment for bad behaviour. Since the children love coming to Cubs, this acts as a way of bringing them up sharp.

absentgrana Mon 27-Jun-11 09:21:03

grannyactivist I think you said something very wise. There is a saying that it takes a whole village to raise a child. The loss of the sense of community in so many places is, I feel certain, a contributory factor to the increase antisocial behaviour we have seen in recent years. How we re-establish this sense of community is another matter.