elderly in hospital

My mum spent many weeks in hospital, three years ago now and then a short time in a care home before she returned home. She actually had a stroke in hospital and the staff "didn't notice". The stroke was a direct result of rough treatment by male member of staff on my mother's first night as an emergency admittance - she was 81 years old at the time!! Her treatment was awful all the way through, I practically lived at the hospital too afraid to leave her bedside. When I did ~ I would return to find her parched because she couldn't reach her drink!!! I tackled the nurse in charge who was sitting at a desk at the bottom of the bed and she said "oh sorry I didn't notice"..........my response is unrepeatable here. Finally when we got mum home, we paid for private tests because I was convinced about the stroke - the results came back and confirmed our worst fears. I wanted to deal with the hospital but my mother was too scared to take it any further. She is well enough now but terrified at the thought of ever having to return to "that place" as she now calls it. She is a very gentle lady who wouldn't say boo to a goose - I guess that's why she was treated so badly. It just makes me very, very sad that these things are still happening :-(

Agreed JessM. If we have to end our lives in hospital, this should neve be a cause for fear and distress. What can politicians do? Listen and prioritise. Treat everyone as they would wish to be treated, though I am sure they don't believe they will ever be old and ill.

Nanasue I am sure you are a great nurse and there are many like you. My DIL for one. But even if there were unlimited funds, a lot of very old, ill people cannot be cared for in their homes. We tend to need and use hospitals most at the very end of our lives.
So what, apart from a reduction in paperwork is the way to better manage hospitals so that better basic care is delivered? What part can politicians play in bringing this about?

Nothing is different over here in Australia. My mother is 88 not well, in pain she is lucky that I can spend four nights a week with her and my brother now lives fairly close by. Last year she spent 24 hours waiting in the emergency department at the hospital before she was given a bed. We had left late at night as they said she would be fine and would still be in the emergency department all night until a bed was free. About an hour after we left a bed was found for her and two people came to get her, they did not speak to her at all. My mother said she was wheeled along passages for a long time (it's a huge hospital) then into a pitch dark room and just left. Mum had no idea what was in that room and was very unwell and she said she was frightened. What is wrong with these people, are they idiots?

When my father spent his last week in a hospice the nurses and staff were the most caring people you could meet. They couldn't do enough for my father and our family.

I could start another thread about how some family members steal from and abuse their elderly parents. This has happened to my mother and I have to say it was a huge shock to find out what had been going on.

I agree with you riclorian. I went to visit my sister and found dirty dressings and other medical rubbish on her bedtable, I picked them up and marched to the nurse station found the most senior staff member and deposited the rubbish in her hand. The look on her face was priceless, how a member of the public dare do this to a ward sister ! The cleanliness left a lot to be desired, there was a board from a stretcher covered in bloodstains leaning against a wall in a corridor for the best part of a week.

Sorry to be a bore , but I still say that care was better in 'the old days' when we had large wards with the Sister sitting at the end .She was able to spot poor nursing skills , patients not eating etc..How on earth modern day Sisters know what is going on in these smaller wards is beyond me . I also am sick and tired of visiting friends and family to find they have been ringing for help for a long time and I have just passed several nurses chatting and laughing at the nurses station !!.Bring back the old Victorian wards .

bringing back the Matrons is not the answer to the problem, it was tried a few years ago and didn`t work, we have ward based managers who are at the mercy of the system as are the rest of us, we are constantly battling lack of appropriate staff and lack of funding for the frontline services. Matrons worked in the ritualistic, almost military, delivery of care of yesteryear, it worked then but it doesnt work now when we try and individualise care for each patient, giving them choices on what they want from their hospital experience (which isnt always what their families want). i am unique at the moment on this forum as although i am in my late 50`s i only did my training a few years ago, Matrons are as relevant to patient care in 2011 as mortar boards and caning in the education system (which i experienced).

We all agree the situation is serious and we need action now.
Suggestions
Gransnet Forum sends 4 representatives from the Forum , with the right experience, to meet with the Minister. These reps use the info from the Forum as evidence of lack of care for older people in hospital. We make it clear that we want action now in the form of local inspection teams who use unannounced inspection visits. We want LINks used as a 'real time' complaint service so that immdediate action can be taken while the patient is in hospital. The funding will be found by getting rid of self -assement and a reduction in the CQC's inspections of Councils.
We devise a sound plan for the future training of all who care for the elderly. This will include Matrons who are not in an office but are ward based. They will have to visit every ward using a strict, unannounced system.
Paper work kept to the essential but massively reduced.
This will all be statutory.
We demand that reps of this group are involved, from the start of the process, in the decision- making.

abuse and neglect of our older population happens in all areas of society, not just hospitals.I work in an acute care of the elderly ward and see first hand where society (and the government) let us down. Years ago we would look after mum or dad ourselves, they would stay in their homes, and die peacefully in their own beds with loved ones to hold their hand. We don`t do that anymore, we have to go out to work, look after grandchildren etc, GP`s don`t do house calls so families have to dial 999 or take family to hospital themselves, very often for minor ailments, elderly people are brought into hospital with incurable and often untreatable illnesses associated with extreme old age, to die in unfamiliar surroundings with people they don`t know (it`s very distressing to hold someones hand in the middle of the night, to be told by an old, sad,person "just let me go, i`ve had enough, let me die), as a nurse i very often find myself overwhelmed with paperwork, computerwork and ringing phones, the actual care work is done by unregistered, unregulated, barely literate people often heavily tattooed,loud,raucous,swearing! (i`m sorry if that offends some people, not all are like it i know) they wear similar uniforms to registered nurses so we all get tarred with the same brush!. Nothing will change unless money is diverted into the system and into society in general to give the specialist care to our older people, to help them stay in their own homes as long as possible and to die in peace with dignity when the time comes.

You are feeling the way I felt when my father-in-law was in hospital, depending on proper care being given to him, in his last weeks.
Every time I hear about the hard -working nurses I think about 3 nurses at their station, feet up on the radiator drinking a can of coke.
I asked them to put my father-in-law back into bed because he was tired and slipping off his chair. They told me to wait until the other staff came back off their break.Twice I did this and twice they refused, until I said if they didn't I would and if he fell it would be their responsibility.
I think of the elderly blind man who was trying to find his plate of food, left on his tray, left to his own devices. I think of this blind gentleman, placing his cup on top of his potatoes. I feel shame that I didn't report them but I was afraid that my father-in-law would suffer.
Day after day I watched the 'hard-working nurses' chatting to each other about their social lives. Don't get me wrong, I have witnessed and experienced great nursing care. I know many nurses who are very professional and take their responsibilities very seriously.

Just a quick note to say that I have added my voice to the growing call by writing to Andrew Lansley. It seems as if I have just found my political (with a small p ) voice.http://www.gransnet.com/te/6.gif

Our's is not to Reason Why, Our's is but to DO and Die. Only Money can change things,and the Country is in Dept. Parliement is a talking shop full of Fat Cats with enough money between them all to sort this out. We have to Take to the Streets,and Demonstrate. Shame them into changing there ways. .

I lost my Mum at the end of last November, age 94. Thank goodness she was only in hospital a month. She had lived with me and my husband for approximately 35 years. Fortunately she was in a side ward which gave her some privacy though the buzzer and her calls were not always answered very quickly. The care she received was in the main quite good but I think it was down to the fact that I and other members of the family were able to visit both afternoon and evening helping her to take soft food and thickened drinks. I did have to complain that she needed her night dress changing and she hadn't got water within her reach. She was unable to lift her arms or head and also not able to swallow, eventually (the week before she died) she had to have a feeding tube inserted. Very stressful for such an old person though she was a good patient, she didn't complain.
The last few days she went into a deep sleep and seemed totally unaware of us there. The Dr said it would not be long and I requested that if she passed away during the night that I should be informed early morning (unless she should call out for us). He agreed to let the nursing staff know. I went to visit the following afternoon and found the bed empty and stripped!! When I eventually managed to get hold of a nurse and said that I presumed my mother had passed away, she was totally dumbstruck. I don't know who was the more shocked, her or me.
After the funeral which was the week before Christmas, and after the holiday period, I wrote a complaint to the hospital concerned. I said that generally she had received good care but my concern was the lack of communication between the night and day staff. They investigated the matter and I had a letter of apology and a telephone call to discuss it and then a follow up letter telling me of the changes they were putting into place to improve contact with relatives, plus further addresses to contact if I wished to take the matter further. I left it at that as I had made the point and to be fair Mom's death was not unexpected.

at the age of 57,I spent some time in hospital ,as a result of a fall ,I had to have a metal plate inserted in my upper arm. whilst there, I had to take on the roll of 'carer' for the much older patients in my orthopaedic ward. I felt bound to feed other patients ,who were unable to feed themselves,and ignored by staff. I regularly filled water jugs,and helped other patients to drink.
I also had to press the 'call' button for others on the ward,when the buzzer hadn't been placed near enough for patients to reach.
On numberous occasions, calls were not answered for at least 20 mins-by which time-patients had no option but to wet the bed-losing dignaty ( not acceptable)
I know,with years of cut-backs,staff are hard pushed. But I'm appalled at the lack of basic care in our hospitals now.
What can we do?

My heart goes out to all the people who have had such negative dealings with the 'care' system. My experiences however where much more positive.
My mother, who had long standing physical disabilities, had a stroke which led to her hospitalisation. After that she was assessed by our local Social Work Team for the Elderly and I was suddenly in a system which worked for both me and her.
The social worker treated me as an equal when it came to making decisions for my mum and took my needs into consideration too.
I must admit it was a very steep learning curve. I hadn't even heard of Vascular Dementia until my mum had it.
Her G.P. was abysmal but I stayed with the practice because the Social Worker was attached to it.
I felt I could 'manage' the G.P. as long as I had the Social Worker fighting my corner. She and I found a local care home who looked after my mum for 5 years up to her death. I still visit the home as a much loved neighbour now lives there. The staff still talk to me about my mum with real affection which means everything to me.
I do recognise that living close to my mum and being able to be on hand to be her advocate made things much easier.
It all depends on the quality and commitment of the professionals you have to deal with, but in my experience, if you meet them half way they will do their best for you.

This has been an issue for many years. In 1967 Barbara Robb wrote Sans Everything about the appalling treatment of the elderly in NHS care and care homes. Here is the reference which I just copied from the internet:
SANS EVERYTHING. Presented by Barbara Robb on behalf of Aid for the Elderly in Gov ernment Institutions (Aegis). London: Thomas Nelson & Sons, 1967
I hope Andrew Lansley will ask his civil servants to read this - or even read it himself. I guess that the proposed remedies in 1967 will still apply today.
Applegran

Well said nannypony. Wishing you swift and happy return to health. Please keep in touch - if we do manage to take this further then your account of your recent first-hand experience would invaluable.

nannypony...webcams are a brilliant idea. We all wish you a full and speedy recovery.

What about webcams in ALL residential homes, hospitals, nurseries etc.? Surely that would stop a great deal of poor care or bad treatment if relatives or friends had a password to access these. They could then see for themselves if there was need for concern - and if so, it could be acted on instantly. We have the technology, let's use it.

Have just been 4 weeks in intensive care, then 4 weeks on ward. An operation went wrong necessitating 2 further surgeries, consequently contracted pneumonia and nearly died. I am 73, but was fit and active when I went in. I found good and bad among staff, and once I complained and matron was involved - I just thought a slap on the wrist, but the nurse (a bank nurse) was banned after from working there. The worst thing was the food (!) followed by bells not answered at night. But I still think we have a pretty good health service (have also been in Canadian hospitals and they are not perfect either - I believe the French have the best hospitals - trust them!). But I too dread being old and in hospital or care home.

I did not find any "ageism", but patients seemed mostly to be sixties to seventies and mentally fit.

Been away from Gransnet for a time as new baby grand-daughter arrived.

Can I ask if it is true that the Human Rights Act does not apply to the enlderly in Care Home and in hospitals? I have it on good authority that it does not.

Annobel - good suggestions re the MPs. Is everyone aware of the website "writetothem.com" which exists to facilitate this.

lack of kindness is so sad isn't it. How can that be made to happen?
1. recruit compassionate staff. but you have to find compassionate job applicants.
2. managers notice, measure and reward compassion. tricky too. They are probably not going to do this if THEY are being measured on other things.

In business you would say that you "wanted to build a customer focussed culture" . Not sure that we can demand kindness but we could ask to be treated as valued customers. That would be a jolly good start

Em, I know that there is a lot of exaggeration of the alleged indebtedness of Scotland to the put-upon English and also know that this is complete tosh!

Annobel - believe me I realise that we are more fortunate up here. There is in the media a tendency to imply that Scots are 'better off' in several ways because we are subsidised by the rest of the UK. If the financial plans which have been mooted do come to be, then we may well have to have a higher rate of local income tax. If that's the choice, then I am more than willing to pay my share to safeguard what I see as important including free personal care for the elderly at home, no prescription tax, and vitally important in this list - a NHS service which still seems to be functioning pretty well. I won't get involved in the political argument pro and con further levels of independence for Scotland ( not advocating total separation) but there is more to it than is discussed in newspapers! We are not a nation of freeloaders and perhaps, in due course, we can prove that. We do seem to have more choice in Scotland than you do down south.

I came out of hospital 3 days ago and while there I was shocked by the lack of care and lack of respect offered to the patients.
Like others on this forum I trained as a nurse in the early 70's. I think the memory of that makes me realise that it doesn't have to be so awful. It is possible to offer good care without masses of staff.

I don't think this lack of care is limited to the elderly. I was in a general medical ward.
Unfortunately most 'care' on the wards is now provided by unqualified staff.

There were some who were kind and efficient but they were in the minority.

It seems to me that it is beginning to resemble third world hospitals where it is normal for relatives to provide care.

I am going to write to the hospital and myMP.

I suggest that your letters should go to your MPs with a copy to the Secretary of State. That way they may have a chance of being read. My MP, a 'new boy' still making his mark, always replies to my letters and passes on my comments to the appropriate minister.
Scots grans - aren't you lucky! You don't have to contend with this creeping privatisation of the NHS which, at this rate, may have to be renamed the SHS up your way.