Cut out of their lives

Carol
So sorry to hear of your latest setback re your grandson.
Like you I have supported women's rights but I find it beyond belief what a woman can do to a grandmother who has done nothing to deserve this pain.
My ex DIL is not hard up.She has a husband 3 more children a large detached house and 2 cars.
I had a card yesterday from my GD (200 miles away)which said 'When it comes to special Grandmas they don't come any more special than you'.I cried.
It is some consolation for the fact that there is no word from my grandson who lives just a mile away.

Thinking of all you separated grandmas and hoping for peace and reconciliation in the New year.

Love and hugs.

Regrettably there are too many women who use their children as weapons Nanban. I have another relative whose ex could have been separated at birth from my ex-DIL. Fortunately, she likes going out most nights, so her three beautiful children live with their dad at least half the time and they love it.

Having been an ardent feminist all my adult life, I have always put myself in the shoes of women involved in acrimonious separations and do understand how anxious they can get about having a regular income and the security of being able to cover the rent or mortgage. I was in that position, but I studied and got myself a career so I could support my children - she has been at college for four years, claims she cannot work, and runs a thriving beauty salon in her home, but claims benefits on top of my son's payments - plus, her boyfriend of 8 weeks has moved in!

I still advocate for ex-DIL when my son makes a cutting remark about her, because I don't approve of men and women being disrespectful, especially with their children in earshot. But sometimes I really do wonder why I bother - she exploits this and knows I can be trusted not to say anything to undermine her to my grandson, while she is hellbent on alienating my grandson from his dad, and tells outrageous lies about him to the child. Give me strength!

Carol - your words are all so familiar - volatile, spiteful, retaliation, distorted - I was so sure no-one else would possibly understand my DiL and yet there are so many like her. Awful. As for Christmas present deliveries - we were literally leaving them on her parents doorstep - 100 mile round trip for us - and getting no acknowledgement at all, so last year we said could we have an address to send them, or could they come to us as we wouldn't do that trip again. We got - you are blackmailing us to come to you or H won't get any presents. We haven't had a card, a gift, nothing for 3 years now, we don't have an address for them, we don't know where he works now and yet I still want to wrap something just in case.

More words, pointless, cruel, wicked.

Someone who can be that person can't be a completely different person to others all the time and we live with the hope that our son just misses us, and that our grandchildren will find us.

So sorry you are in this position.

I have been so lucky, my ex-DIL realises how important GP are to the children especially when things are fraught.

If it is any comfort my DH would tell you from his own experience that children do not forget (he never has) and this could all come back to haunt your Grandson's mother one day.

What I cannot understand is how the law has turned on its head. Years ago when a divorce happened the children invariable stayed with the father (I suppose the mother could not have supported them anyway) but they were HIS children not her's. Now a father rarely gets custody and has to fight for access. Why can the parent and courts not see that the children are already hurting, they need all the love and support that the wider family can give.

Thanks Nanban. There will only be a couple more years and he will be 14 and more able to assert his feelings and opinions. At present, it must be easier for him to say the right things to please his mum, who can be highly volatile, than hurting his dad's feelings, as he won't take revenge or say anything spiteful in retaliation.

It's so tempting to challenge her when she comes out with lies, or distorts what has been said, but it won't be me who gets it in the neck. A couple of days ago she told me on the phone that my grandson had said to her that we would only give him presents if he can see his dad at Christmas. This is when she withdrew the contact tomorrow and texted me to ask when the presents were being brought round. It's her way of proving she has power over everyone because my grandson lives with her. She insisted my grandson came to the phone, and when he denied that he had said that to her, she sent him from the room. She had distorted my casual comment 'your daddy is looking forward to giving you your presents.' Every now and then, I see that little flicker of recognition that shows me my grandson has grasped what her behaviour is like towards us, but I would never say anything to him - he will decide for himself who he can trust as he grows.

So, there will be a gaping hole where my beloved grandson should be this Christmas and we hope to see him in a week or so, if things settle down again. It's what he wants, and the divorce should be sorted soon, with an opportunity to get contact officially agreed at the court. Makes you want to weep, doesn't it?

Dear Carol - I'm trying to find words - Your grandson will be so pleased to know that you have done so much for him which is truly the most important thing and when he is old enough to make his own decisions as to who he will or won't see, I'm sure you will be top of the list. Sadly, I know only too well that, comforting though that might be, today it doesn't help the hurt.

As for 'silent screaming' and 'biting back the words' - been there, done it, got the T-shirt and in the end it hasn't helped our cause at all. Retrospect is a wonderfully useless thing.

I'm completely thrilled that my other boy and his girlfriend have elected to spend their Christmas with us and am putting everything aside to make it best I can.

Dear Grannies All, have a lovely Christmas and all good wishes for the New Year x

Dear*Carol*...you are an angel and deserve to be glowing with family pride. I may be a long way away from you, but I still want to put a comforting arm around your shoulder. ((hugs))

We really are sitting targets, aren't we? It takes real guts and determination to not rise to some of the cruel and spiteful comments. My son and I have been blocked from having my grandson round for Christmas Eve afternoon now, and the only text messages I am getting relate to 'when are you bringing all the presents round as I have bought him nothing because you and your son said you had got him quite a lot (we said we have a few presents - don't believe in swamping kids with presents)! He will have nothing to open on Christmas morning. I have spent my money on the other children!' Unbelievable! Absolute rubbish, of course - I sent a dozen lovely presents through the front door myself just 2 days ago, from most of my family and me, and there are even more to drop off tomorrow, including presents for each and every member of ex-DIL's immediate family, cards for the extended family, and even a lovely present for her (sticks in my throat, but have to rise above all this).

No wonder grandparents are such special people - we are the ones who put the children first

Oh dear, Some folks look for things to do outrage about. I know the feeling. Of course what all this anger is really about is probably something else... you are just a soft target.

Back again - here's one of my sins: 4 prospective grandparents waiting at the birth taking it in turns to go ask re progress through security doors to desk. My turn. A nurse from a distance waves and says 'come and see your grandson' - I waved at the rest sitting in the waiting room but, nurse going out of sight, I followed and through a door, expecting to see the baby, there we were in the actual delivery room. In my day anyone but mum was only allowed to see the baby through a glass screen - and, yes, that was a long time ago but that's what I was expecting. I said from the doorway, sorry to DiL and she said no come in. I took a couple of quick pics and got out of there. Now that has been on the list of my major crimes as 'I outrageously pushed my way into the delivery room where she was still up in stirrups'.

Thank you for the suggestion Carol - I'll keep trying - maybe we should write a manual - Hints & Tips for Estranged Grandparents!

Someone asked if we know what we have done - of course in our shoes we will say absolutely nothing! I listen to friends who row with their children, their sons and dils and yet they carry on. If we knew what we had done we would do everything we possibly could to make it right but our sins are all in the inventive mind of our dil.

Oh oh, Himself is back from walking the dog - must go now. Have a very lovely Christmas all. xxx

Nanban (((hugs))) galore x

Nanban good to see you back.

Nanban just a thought, and it may not work, but have you kept on trying Facebook? I ask because the constant security changes keep exposing people's pages if they don't keep on top of security, and you may find there is a little bit of information or a photo on there before they realise they haven't updated security. We have been able to access a lot of information recently, and printed it off before it was noticed and closed off again. Good luck x

Oh for that fairy godmother wand to reunite all.
Hope you are all managing to keep those peckers up in the darkest week of the year (it got dark at 4pm! humph)
(actually keeping one's pecker up sound strangely masculine when you write it down, such is the sexism of the language ... )
HAve you still got no idea what you are supposed to have DONE (or not done) Joan?

Huge thanks to nanban & carol for their words which say everything I would like to say.
As I am another gran separated from one of my DGD's, through distance more than adversity, I feel comforted by all the thoughts and support from other GNetters.

I've said this before, but it's well worth repeating. There are some of the loveliest, wisest women here on Gransnet and I really do appreciate the kind words you have taken the trouble to write. When I see postings for other Gransnetters, they are equally reassuring for me. Some days, life can get a little bit scary and there is always someone waiting with a kind word or virtual pat on the shoulder. Thank you!

Wow, I am so pleased you are all still there and amazingly interested. It has to be true that we grans are - and I don't mean this in a big-headed way at all - the nicest, most understanding, kindest lot. Waste us at your peril.

You have as, always, comforted and made me - and I hope all other grieving grans - feel so much better about life. Words seem so inadequate, especially 'thank you'.

My very best wishes to you and a candle is lit for a better 2012. xxx

Warmest wishes to all of you separated from loved ones this Christmas. I cannot imagine how you cope. Hopefully 2012 will be a better year for you all and you will be reunited with your loved ones. Love and hugs. x

Nanban I was wondering where you were x

As ever, my heart goes out to you all; I can only begin to imagine your pain. My love, and hugs to you. Xxxx

If I could give you all a Christmas present it would be that all your problems were resolved and that you were reunited with your loved ones. I hope that 2012 brings you everything you wish for.

Nanban - I've been wondering how you were and if things had improved at all. In fact I was going to post a message today to mention that you hadn't been in touch. I'm so very, very sorry to know that there's been no progress for you, and whatever anyone says, nothing is going to make you feel any better, apart from the (hopefully) caring support that you'll receive on Gransnet.
A mother's/grandmother's love is totally unconditional. For all of you who are separated by this unkind and thoughtless cruelty, my heart goes out to you.

nanban joan carol I'm so sad for you. I send love to you and every other GN who is going through an unhappy family experience. May the year 2012 be kinder to you all. xxx

By the way, peeps, for those of you who witnessed my bad behaviour during our virtual Christmas Party, much of it was modelled on the person who is inflicting all this pain - alcohol, lack of tact, cruel barbs and all......(wink, wink)

I found it quite cathartic - must do it more often! xx

Nanban Good to hear from you again.
No good news about my grandson.It feels harder to be denied contact after 11 yrs of a happy relationship.and even harder for my son.
The court applications have made things much worse.
One more thing you could do is ask for an appointment
with your MP.
I did this and posted about it on 17th Dec on the thread Relationships >Denied Contact.
My MP was very positive and will give our cause 100% support.
Meanwhile I send to you and all sad grandparents my love and support.