Cut out of their lives

Sorry, I meant grand daughter of course!

Paradoxy - We should all have the freedom converse with the people we are closest to; we should all have space to make allowance for our differences without fearing aggression or reprisals; we should all most definitely be able to speak out if it concerns the wellbeing of children who can't speak for themselves. Sadly, that is in an ideal world.

I am so very sorry for your pain. Personally, no matter what, I would hang on in there and accept what's offered and hope for change in the future. Your little grandchild needs you to be in his life more than anything else and horrifically difficult though your situation is, I think it worth any sacrifice.

I hope my views don't cause you more distress, because after all only you stand in your shoes. Thank you for your kind words and thoughts and I suppose it's because we are so absolutely cut off I see hope in the smallest of gestures.

Nanban: Sounds like a great idea! Sorry I can't offer any advice about how to do this but having read your posts, I admire your tenacity and resourcefulness and have every confidence that you will be able to figure out a way.

I, too, have been banned from seeing my GD. Sadly, I have also contributed to this situation. Three years ago my OH was undergoing treatment for cancer and we were staring into the abyss. Into this darkness came the news that my S and his OH were expecting a baby. The news bought us hope and so it proved to be.

GD was beautiful and I fell in love with her! For two years I babysat weekly while mum went to work. She found motherhood difficult (who doesn't!) and their lives were chaotic, filthy cold house, baby not fed etc, etc. I bit my tongue but I guess my disapproval showed.

S experienced mental health problems and couldn't cope and I had several frantic phone requests for help while he was caring on his own (while mum was at work). I took them all on holiday for a short break to try and give some support and respite. I eventually took over washing GD's nappies (cloth - she wouldn't let me buy disposables) as mum didn't soak nor wash any for 2 days and didn't change her frequently enough with resulting soreness and extreme discomfort for GD. Frankly, as we were in shared holiday accommodation, the aroma of steaming nappies gave a ripe ambience!

The situation further deteriorated when we returned home. S's OH was increasingly jealous of my relationship with GD who would cry and cling to me when I took her home after babysitting. I would make excuses to mum saying she had just woken up etc, in order to attempt to limit the damage to mum's self esteem.

Mum began venting her ire, posting inappropriate content about me on social networking sites. I had a word with S to make it stop as it was increasingly embarrassing as well as compromising my professional position. The situation deteriorated, we had a row and she said she didn't trust me and I would not be able to see my GD again. Since then she and S have made a couple of very tentative approaches at reconciliation but I have ignored these.

Using your child as a weapon is inexcusable in my book. If I did re-establish contact, I fear future manipulation of a similar sort if/when I next upset her. I also find it painful to see my GD continue to experience what I consider to be inadequate parenting (although this has improved marginally).

I'm not proud of my actions and I suspect that my disapproval of their life choices will prevent this situation from ever being resolved but life is too short to spend it in the company of people that cause me such distress. My OH is in remission and has some limited contact with them and takes GD presents, Easter eggs etc. Sometimes he is allowed to bring GD to see me and I cherish these times.

I appreciate that my stubbornness is to the detriment of that gorgeous little girl and this remains my regret.

Thank you for your support Maniac - me too, I have a Facebook page just for our grandchildren hopefully one day to read and know they were loved. But, all our efforts are disjointed and separate and how wonderful it could be for all grandchildren to know there is one place where they might find us. It must be possible but I don't know where to start.

Nanban Sorry your hopes have been dashed again after tentative contact.
Your suggestion is good.Maybe GNHQ can advise how we might proceed.
I have recently started a blog of family news with the hope that my GS may at some time chance to read it. I'll send you a pm

We are just emerging from the last 7 months of tentative contact with our son [via email only, we have no clue where they are, no phone number etc] and have performed every verbal task they set us, kept calm, kept steadfast, kept truthful, just kept trying, our hearts were lifted with the hope of change and we truly thought we were getting somewhere. But, the contact has been broken and once again hope is dead.

How sad it all is, and how pointless in a world where there is so much pain and trouble to invent more to satisfy the personality of any one person. I am so truly sad and sorry for you all and what can we do?

I have wondered if it would be possible to create a website for Grannies being Reunited with Grandchildren; each granny [male or female] having an entry that the missing can easily find, easily identify and easily connect with.

Have just read the very very sad poem. I too am alienated from two of my grandchildren and haven't seen them for 5 plus years. The little boy was almost 5 and the girl 7 when we last saw them. We have the sad job of delivering their Easter gifts this week. Haven't managed the trip to their house yet. I have to pluck up courage. These are the worst times. The mother was so abusive the last time - Christmas before last - last Christmas we sent vouchers. Hard to send an egg by post tho. She hides the children and seems to hate the very ground I walk on. The only think I did was to give my son a roof when they broke up. I offered her support but nothing.

I just hang on to the hope that one day they will want to see us. The girl is 13 now.

I really hope your son comes round one day. I couldn't bear to lose a son or daughter as well as beloved grandchildren. My heart goes out to you both.

Brunate, too. I never realised how hard it would be to be a Gran.

Ah, Nanban, Purdy, Rictorian - so sad to read your stories. The more so as three years ago we too found ourselves on the receiving end of a condemnatory diatribe from a much loved son.

We, like you, were absolutey heartbroken and
unable to comprehend where all the evident ill will came from. Our son seems to have become a negative image of his former balanced, happy, kind and funny self.

We are working towards building the relationship. But feel it can never be the same again. Fortunately we still see the GCs. Though they do not visit our house... we don't really understand why and dare not ask.

Heaven knows what happens to some sons (and maybe daughters too, but we only have sons so can't compare) when they start a family of their own.

We try to stay strong and positive. We take heart from comment in this thread. At least we know we are not alone.

Gillick competency refer to a legal case which looked specifically at whether doctors should be able to give contraceptive advice or treatment to under 16-year-olds without parental consent. But since then, they have been more widely used to help assess whether a child has the maturity to make their own decisions and to understand the implications of those decisions.

In 1982 Mrs Victoria Gillick took her local health authority (West Norfolk and Wisbech Area Health Authority) and the Department of Health and Social Security to court in an attempt to stop doctors from giving contraceptive advice or treatment to under 16-year-olds without parental consent.

The case went to the High Court where Mr Justice Woolf dismissed Mrs Gillick’s claims. The Court of Appeal reversed this decision, but in 1985 it went to the House of Lords and the Law Lords (Lord Scarman, Lord Fraser and Lord Bridge) ruled in favour of the original judgement delivered by Mr Justice Woolf:

"...whether or not a child is capable of giving the necessary consent will depend on the child’s maturity and understanding and the nature of the consent required. The child must be capable of making a reasonable assessment of the advantages and disadvantages of the treatment proposed, so the consent, if given, can be properly and fairly described as true consent."

Please hang in there all of you. I lost my DD to my ex Husband when she was 9. She chose to live with him after our Divorce; he had money, I had nothing but the love of a wonderful man.
There ensured 10 long years of hanging on until I knew she would be old enough to be told the truth.
I know it's not the same, but these children grow up, and hopefully you will still be there to love them as you have always wanted to.
You have my heartfelt thoughts.

I haven't looked at the forum for a long time now and I am so sorry to hear all the new stories. Dear Brunate all I can offer is that at the beginning I felt like the only person this was happening to and simply couldn't understand why - I examined every action and every word and decided it was nothing I had contributed to but just down to the personality of my DiL. Another conclusion was that there is absolutely nothing I can do to change the situation try as I might, until and unless she finds a reason for letting us back in. Does that make life easier, no. Does it make it less sad, no. There is nothing that helps BUT you are not alone, there is always someone here who will listen sympathetically. Never give up, keep trying in whatever way you can and however little it may seem. There is no such word as never. My very best wishes. Not forgetting Animalallover!

I'm not sure what Gillick Competent is Minty. My daughter said, when I requested that we all meet just for a cup of tea and a "hello" instead of this said: "We are having a family discussion round the table this weekend and will get back to you with their answer." The answer, on Mothers Day, of course, was: "The children said they don't want to see you." However, we know for certain that these are not their words. They were never so happy as when they were with us and this made our daughter jealous. The solution, in her mind, was to stop them seeing us. The last time we saw them we'd had them for a weekend and they sang all the way back home. They went into their home happy and said what a lovely time they had had, and this just infuriated our daughter. The thought that they might like us better than them was too much to bear and so the answer was to stop them from seeing us and we have been told that they were told that we don't want to see them. We would like to get a message to them saying that this isn't true and that we love them.

At 7/8year old, it is possible that a judge would not consider the children to be 'Gillick Competent.'

So sorry to hear how these children are still being kept from their grandparents. My son sees my grandson all the time now, after such treatment, and I get to see him regularly, too - he was 13 last week. My son explains more to him as he is growing older, and after more shenanigans from ex-DIL this weekend, he is picking my grandson up from school today and will put the record straight so my grandson knows his dad is being as consistent and reliable as always. She threatens non-contact again, but we now know she will come back with some demand (usually money) after a few days, and sadly grandson is learning this, too. This behaviour will backfire on these people in time. Their children will work things out for themselves, without anyone having to point it out to them.

Brunate my deepest sympathy.My ex DIL has blocked emails and phone calls and told me that cards ,gifts will not be given to my GS .
She insists that he does not want contact with his dad or our family-so hard to believe after 10 years of happy times together.
Just had a 3rd birthday of no contact with him and he's only a mile away
Send me a pm for more info
Love and hugs

I know that if I send them emails, letters, books etc etc they will not receive them because my daughter would rather tell them that the reason we don't see them is because we don't want to. She has told me this and if you contradict her, she says that you are arguing with her and she can't do with this.

Sorry you are going through this Brunate. Have you tried sendng regular cards and litte gifts to the children to keep commincation open? I used to send my grandson books and DVDs I knew he woud enjoy, and humorous cards telling him I was thinkng about him. I hope the time comes when you are able to be in touch with them

Brunate

I have just reached rock bottom and think I will never be me ever again. My daughter also is playing games using my two grandchildren. It has gone on a long time and we have not been able to see them. Now we have asked to take their presents over to them at Christmas (for they only live 45 minutes away by car) and were told: "We want to put things right between us and would like to meet after Christmas". But we haven't fallen out with her, never had a misword (or a good one) because for years she hasn't spoken to us and even when the children were small she would drop them off at the door and not speak and pick them up later and not speak. Then when she discovered how much the children loved us she's decided that enough is enough and we haven't seen them for almost three years. We don't know where to turn for help. We said we would take it to a family court and had an email to say that this weekend they would ask the children if they wanted to see us. They are only 7 and 8 years old. The answer has come from them that the children said they didn't want to see us - and we were not invited there to be part of this discussion. It isn't true of course, unless their minds have been poisoned against us, because the last time we saw them they had a very happy weekend with us. Who can help us? I have almost fainted by this last email.

I know how you feel if only my son would talk to us and let us see our granchildren it would be lovley

SJP, good luck,hope it goes well for you and the grandchildren.xx

Being denied contact is a global issue.

Like you, I've no contact with 2 of my grandchildren,I haven't seen them in 10 years ,except in the street,and the pain is constant. I have 3 other grandchildren, and love them dearly. I see them daily, but although I'm so grateful, they can't replace the ones I never see. Why do people do this? They deprive us AND the grandchildren. All we can do is hope one day they see the light.

Ereader, keep trying. Never give up....because you know what? You'll never 'get over it'. Sometimes our children just don't seem to understand the rawness of loss that we feel when they shrug us away from their lives. I hope that you are soon able to gain more contact with your family.