Donating Winter fuel allowance to the young unemployed!

Oh shoot! Did I switch off too soon?! Did she come on after the charity lady? The one called somebody Shah?

Did I miss Geraldine? There was someone called (something) Shah from a charity talking. She was very good but when she mentioned millions of pounds that her charity donated, I thought it unlikely that that was Geraldine. Or was it?

This charity makes my blood boil. I have never been given anything in my life.If I wanted it I worked for it-when my three kids were little I had next to nothing-I remember choosing between a new pair of tights and spam for tea.Guess which won. Bankers and so called celebrities should cough up.If they ever do this they shout it from the rooftops-making it a publicity stunt-dont get me started.

I think that one of the irritating things about the charitable giving suggestion was that it should go to help the young unemployed find employment. Of course, the young unemployed should be helped – and it is terrible that their prospects look so bleak. However, if the suggestion had been to help young families, such as some of the ones mentioned here, cope with astronomical heating bills, we wouldn't have felt so patronised and put out. It's the disconnect and the implication that daft but rich grannies aren't helping the next generation that are so galling.

My mother is 83 and can stand all manner of privations, but cold is not one of them. As soon as there is even a hint of a chill, on goes her gas fire and central heating. She uses every penny of her WFA on keeping warm and often reminisces about the times we scraped ice off the inside of our windows in times past and had no money for coal.

A young family I know did have the WFA plus the extra payments last year. They assumed I'd have them too, knowing that I'm retired and were very taken aback to find out that I don't because they are paid only to the poorest pensioners who claim pension credits.

That's a strange one. I wonder how often temperature drops below zero for seven consec. days in this country. Maybe three or four? I know people on benefits and I don't remember them ever getting that payment. Also, money probably needed before the cold spell not a week afterwards.

The " young unemployed " and others on means tested benefits do get a cold weather payment of £25.00 in addition to their weekly benefits when the temperature drops below zero for seven consecutive days - it gets paid automatically so they do not have to make an additional claim.

I thought some of the reason for the current high energy prices was because the government (that is, WE, through our taxes) have been pouring massive subsidies into renewable energy research and action, such as building wind farms. Old sayings about having cake and eating it come to mind. I notice the govt has pulled public funding out of subsidising solar power recently, presumably because it ain't economical and because of rising fuel poverty. I agree with everyone who says that in a civilised country, no-one should go cold or hungry.

Fuel poverty is a scandal in this country. It is as much a function of poor housing as high fuel prices. Arguably we pay rather too little for our fuel (e.g VAT is reduced on it) so I suppose the WFP is one way of helping one vulnerable group. But all those in fuel poverty (more than 10% of your income on fuel) whether young or old suffer health effects such as increased chest infections.
I spent a winter in a terribly ill-heated (non heated) house in NZ a few years ago, looking after ailing son. It was about 3 deg C, indoors in the mornings and did not improve much as the day went on. I wore prodigious amounts of clothing while working in the kitchen (2 pairs of trousers, 4 tops, a scarf etc) and we heated one small room with a plug in radiator for him to keep warm. Anyone who lives in such circumstances has my extreme sympathy. It is easy to forget while living in my C/H energy efficient house. I have a year to decide what to do with my WFP... but there is no shortage of good causes.

WFA is payable to families who claim working families tax credits and who have young children. They are also entitled to the extra payments made when temperatures drop below zero.

absent has put it in a nutshell - NOBODY in a civilised (?) society such as ours should be cold or hungry - whatever age. Everyone should be able to afford to heat their homes and as crimson says - the solution lies with the government to ensure that the ridiculous profits made by energy companies are used to REDUCE the charge we have to pay.

Was the WFA introduced because of the increasing numbers of elderly people dying of hypothermia each winter? But, perhaps the best solution would be for the government to do something about the amount we are charged for energy by companies that are making record profits each year?

I still maintain that means tested benefits end up being costly and inefficient – think of the mess with child tax credit. But what I think is happening here is actually what might be called a violent agreement. NOBODY should have to go cold in the winter, whether a child or a granny. Just because the elderly get a WFA doesn't mean that someone else should go short. Perhaps we should be campaigning to ensure that families with young children can also afford to heat their homes. It shouldn't be either or or but both and.

Not all travel passes are free for over 60's, I pay £25 a year for my pass and I think I made two five minutes trips last year.
My DS an DIL's house is way cooler than mine, their words "temperature should be between 16 and 18 degrees" I wear a fleece at that temperature but children play happily and do not seem uncomfortable.

We are in a complete minefield here and surely we should all be allowed to make our own decisions as to what we do or don't do with any income we receive from any source.
Whilst I can see and accept both sides of this argument I really feel that if someone wants to spend the WFA on 'treats' that is their decision just as it is if they want to give away their WFA to family, friends or even the local cat's home (oops in trouble now with cat-lovers!).
The same argument could apply to Child benefit but has anyone suggested that wealthier families donate their child benefit to the elderly?
What about the free bus passes - the same argument could be used about wealthier over 60's getting free bus travel.
I have my bus pass and enjoy the additional freedom it gives me, but my husband and I also still work so - yes, I could afford to pay my bus fare.
However, out of our income we support a family of five out in Moldova (the poorest country in Eastern Europe) by paying a monthly standing order which doubles their income.
At Christmas every year we also send out three boxes on the lorry - one with foodstuffs, one with individual presents for each member of the family and one with a bag of clothing for each member of the family. I am not saying all this to show how wonderful we are but to make the point - everyone should have the choice as to how they spend whatever income they have.
What is really wrong in this country, and indeed throughout the world is the amount of people in poverty - there should never any be any family freezing or going hungry for want of sufficient money. Sadly benefit cheats get away with their fraudulent behaviour and give the genuine needy a tough time as through their honesty they end up worse off.

So how many of the young have ever experienced using an outside loo in the dead of winter and chipping the ice off the windows like I'm sure many of us have. Mind you spouse is so mean about turning on the heating it still sometimes feels like that now!
Charitable gifts should be given freely and I'm also sure the older members of the population have this act as part of their DNA & will give what they can to causes needing help without being directed.
I used to work with young unemployed people in the 80s and even then, when they didn't need money for mobile phones and other gadgets, I rarely saw real economic poverty, even in an ex-mining district.
In any case all our spare money is going to D and Sil who are struggling to build a business & S and MiL buying a house - but they still take it for granted that they will have household items, decor etc that we waited years to afford.

I really don't see why means testing is so difficult. Here in France you get some benefits if you are over 60 and below the tax threshold. WFA is only given occasionally, but there is a rebate on one of the council tax equivalents and people don't have to pay the TV licence. The tax threshold is higher and fewer people pay income tax than in the UK, though the NI equivalent contributions are far, far higher.

Gillybob - I imagine to be young and freezing isn't a lot different to being old and freezing.

Perhaps those on a low income should also be entitled to WFA. I thought there were benefits in place to help those on low incomes - working tax credits I think. Forgive me if I have got it wrong but my knowledge of the benefit system is very limited.

As to whether the loss of WFA would "eat into my savings" I have just paid almost £1500 to have my oil tank filled - which came from my savings. That, together with the level of Council Tax I have to pay (currently around £40 per week) means my income has to stretch a long way. Yes I consider myself lucky to have savings above the threshold but it has taken me more than 40 years to get to this point

If the WFA were simply averaged out over the year and added to the basic pension, I don't think we'd have the same argument. It's because it is nominally 'ring-fenced' and paid separately that there is controversy. I totally agree that we shouldn't follow the route of divide and conquer and I have used my savings/income/WFA - whatever is appropriate - to help my family as we all have. Barrow has a valid point though. If those of us who are lucky enough to have savings, handed the cash over to the family now rather than hanging on to it, then we could bring the total below the £16k and become entitled to all sorts of benefits. We'd probably be no worse off on a week-to week basis but would cost the country a vast amount. Besides I take some pride in the fact that I have saved, am independent financially, am in a position to help my family and am not taking huge amounts in benefits.

Jeany At last someone can see the point I am trying to make. Thank you.

kittylester As I said in a previous post, I don't buy the "we have worked all of our lives" argument. Most ordinary working class people WILL work virtually all of their lives and probably more so for the younger ones, for who pensions will be a thing of the past (unless you are public sector of course but that a whole new can of worms).

absentnana All other benefits are means tested so whats the difference? It could be paid as an addition to another benefit. I agree sometimes the elderly find it difficult to fill forms in etc. and that needs to be looked at too. Why not have some of these really hard working civil servants go around and help fill forms out? or perhaps have volunteers from the pensioner groups who love to moan and groan as to how hard done by they are, they could do something really practical and worthwhile.

Barrow Would the loss of the WFA really "eat into your savings?" How do you think it feels to be young and freezing with no savings? and where would you draw the line with savings? £16k, £50k , £100k ?

I am sorry to be so cynical but I just think that to be given a WFA handout jut because you have reached a certain age taking no account of the fact that you could be extremely wealthy, when a young family are literally freezing is just so grossly unfair.

I agree no-one should suffer from cold, whether a pensioner or a young family.

However, the suggestion that WFA should be linked to Pension Credits would be unfair. I am unable to claim any benefits as I have savings over £16,000. I can see the logic of this as there has to be a cut off point somewhere.

My savings are invested to give me an income which together with my pension is still lower than a friend who receives many benefits because she has told the authorities she has no savings (I know this to be untrue).

If the WFA was linked to Pension Credits I would not receive it meaning I would have to use my savings, reducing my income until eventually my savings would be below the £16,000 threshold and I would then be able to claim all the benefits, thus costing the country much more.

I have put forward the same argument over Council Tax benefit. I can control, to a certain extent, the amount I spend on food etc. but heating costs and Council Tax are out of my control. I have to spend as much as it costs to heat my home and if I don't pay the Council Tax I can be arrested! Perhaps the answer is to raise the savings threshold.

gillybob Means testing is an expensive and inefficient system. Furthermore, there are lots of pensioners who are entitled to means tested benefits but do not claim them. Maybe they are too proud, maybe they don't realise that they are entitled or maybe the forms are so complicated (they often are huge and difficult to follow) that they have just given up.

Extra benefits for pensioners – winter fuel allowance, free tv licenses for the over 75s, free prescriptions, etc. – are discounted from the point of view of income tax.