MIL takes over

No probs bags just being lazy! (I'm not a creationist!)

Forgive me for the pedantry there, but it is important to distinguish.

But yes, when I've stopped being pedantic, you're right, carol. Anything that helps offspring survive will be "selected for" in the evolutioon stakes and, therefore, passed on genetically.

evolved, not designed.

There's nothing like a lioness watching over her cubs. Press the wrong buttons and I could go off like a rocket when my children were little - that survival instinct that makes you fiercely protective was designed in us for a good reason.

Next time she says you're jealous, afar, I suggest you tell her that that's what makes you a good mother. Mothers throughout the animal kingdom are fiercely protective of their young offspring and often object to interference from others. It's a survival strategy. She's calling it by the wrong name because, as jess suggests, it's probably she who is jealous.

In short, you're allowed to be "jealous" (figuratively kick the butts) of other women trying to control your child. It's normal.

I think "jealous" might be a case of what Freud called "transference" . It is probably the MIL that is terribly jealous /envious and is struggling to adapt to being "pushed off the perch" as the head honcho of the family. She has been the mother for a long time and now "afar" is the mother. She has, as it were, been demoted to the dower house. The back seat of the car. I'm sure many of us have encountered this interesting phenomenon when our sons have got married or when they have become fathers. They have been our main focus for so many years and suddenly it is very clear that their wives and kids are now their main focus. In some other societies there is an established way of dealing with this transition. Some cultures maintain the power of the MIL e.g. in the subcontinent where DILs go to live with MILs and the MILs continue to control their own homes with the DIL in a relatively powerless position.
In our society there are not guidelines and we are each left to deal with it ourselves. Or not.

I really wish I had been as strong as bagitha when I married at 18. I meekly went along with having to visit MIL every Sunday and eat her awful cooking. As you can probably see, I became much more strong-minded in later years but I realise now that if I had just stood my ground from the start MIL would have had to get used to it.
If grandparents cut themselves off, that is their loss and I hope they soon come to realise their stupidity.

Apparently of my child having another mother-figure in his life...

She accused you of being jealous??? Jealous of what, exactly?

JessM I don't think we would have counted as posh. I agree that expecting a three-year-old to know what they're for and use them whether or not they have seen them before is completely bonkers. A damp flannel was still required at the end of the meal – and that was just for absentgrana.

Sorry absent - it depends on family traditions i think. We never had 'em in our family (not a posh lot). Might get a bit of kitchen towel at mine, if meal a messy one.
But expecting a 3 year old who is not used to using them to suddenly know what they are for is still pretty special. These days they are more likely to expect mother to swoop upon them at the end of a meal with a disposable baby wipe...

bagitha

We also use cotton napkins and always have. DD (eleven) doesn't put hers on her lap though; she just Leaves it on the table and wipes her fingers when necessary. She is beginning to grow out of wiping her mouth on her sleeve! GS (2) wants a napkin too when he's here. He has it on his lap but doesn't use it and will sometimes ask his mama to wipe his hands in the middle of a meal. She thinks he's a fuss-pot and hopes he'll grow out of it! They'll get there – somewhere civilised – in the end.

I am sufficiently old-fashioned not just to use napkins, but linen or cotton ones. When my two-year-old and three-year-old grandchildren were staying, I didn't put napkins at their places at the table, much to the indignation of my granddaughter. It's not that they had them at home, she just wanted to be the same as everyone else. After the first meal, I put napkins out for them every time and even dug out the elephant and fish napkin rings my sister and I had as children. The kids thought they were great and did use them – but nobody nagged them to do so.

Serviettes? For 3 year olds? This poor woman is living in a time warp isn't she.
Also she has obviously got a problem that she needs to work out. I think you have done your bit here and a bit of a pause in proceedings is a good idea.

afar If I were in your shoes, I would do as bagitha suggests. As shared mealtimes have become a bone of contention, then it's probably sensible not to continue. How about inviting MIL to accompany you to the park or zoo, where you can enjoy less formal picnics?

Crikey! To be sat there at 3 years old with mum and dad and with serviette at hand sounds a bit formal. We're lucky if my 3 year old grandsons refrain from wiping their mouths with their sleeves! Napkins are provided when it is a birthday, special meal or Christmas, but for family teatime my daughter always has a baby wipe handy and will offer it if needed. Leaving serviettes on the table with 3 year old twins only results in diversions to make paper airplanes! You really do have nothing to worry about with your little boy learning table manners in due course.

I was thinking about you and your problem the other day and wondering how you were all getting on. I think it's a good idea to take a step back now since your MIL does not seem able to compromise. By step back, I mean don't eat meals with her since she apparently will not stop interfering. There's no reason why you shouldn't enjoy other visits. There's more to being a gran than interfering at meal times when you've been asked not to. All the best. Keep your pecker up. xx

So, just to update all. We went over to MIL and the first time she told my LB to use his serviette while he was sitting between me and DH, I asked her to pls not correct him while we are there. We have no problem with her doing it when she babysits, but we will do all correcting etc if we are there with him. I really could not have been more polite. Anyway, we were told that we, especially me, are jealous and we are stopping her from being a grandmother and that it's not fair that she is being punished for my insecurities. We have not heard from her since then and my DH is not interested in playing this game anymore. I give up.

I think this thread gets to the nub of how difficult it is to be a MIL or a grandparent. There are times when biting my tongue has been an almost superhuman effort! When I have been unable to do so and something has slipped out, I have asked my D afterwards if that was OK - e.g. I often tell my GS to say please and thank you, and my D is fine with that - but I only do it when he is asking me for something or receiving something from me - definitely not when it is D or SIL. If he misbehaves when my D or SIL are there I leave it to them to discipline him; and if he asks me for something that I am not sure they would want him to have, I tell him he must ask Mummy or Daddy - giving them the control.

This sounds great, but is not always easy to do! With my other 3 GC (whom I see much less often) it is very difficult - the oldest boy is really pretty naughty and (for my money) gets away with far too much. The sad thing is that it makes visits a trial rather than a pleasure. His behaviour is sometimes so appalling that you would have to be a saint (I do not qualify!) not to say something. On one occasion he completely ignored what my D was saying to him 4 times - he was charging about and causing havoc among the younger children. I am afraid I got up, took him gently by the shoulders and firmly reprimanded him for not doing as he was told. He was quite upset, and afterwards I apologised to my D and SIL - they were fine with it, and said I had done the right thing. I have only done this twice - the other occasion was when he was taunting the younger children with a toy and I took it away from him and told him he could not have it back until he was prepared to share it. Again Mum and Dad backed me up. I must also admit that when (at age 9!) he sits and smashes his spoon against the rest of the cutlery so no-one can hear themselves think, I do gently put my hand on his and tell him that we do not do that in this house - the parents let him get away with it when he ignores them telling him not to do it - but he stops it for me.

In fact he behaves fine when he is here without his parents - I do a good line in stern looks when needed!!

So....a minefield really. In the absence of your MIL communicating with you on the subject (as I try to do with mine) then you can only change the situation by broaching the subject yourself. Tell them that you appreciate that they say these things out of concern for your children, but that you would appreciate it if they consulted you and OH about it first. Good luck!!!!

ga I agree with you - consistency and fairness all round is usually enough.

Baggy I don't actually get asked 'why' very much, although I do on occasion. I'm always open to being questioned on the basis that if I can't come up with a reasonable answer I should perhaps re-consider what I'm doing. (My own mother's response to being questioned was to answer, 'because I said so'. As a child I decided that I would explain things to my own children if they made a reasonable request.) When other children have been in my home they have mostly conformed to the often unspoken 'rules' of the house, the basis of which is 'respect people and property', but it is a two way street and I think a major problem often occurs when children and young people are not given respect or listened to. It's been my experience that youngsters respond well to firm, but consistent boundaries and can often be very astute judges of motives.

Definitely let your husband deal with it. MIL will forgive her son for butting in (even though she might resent it at first ) But, she will not take it from you in her own house - no way in the world. Delegate, delegate, delegate. There are some battles you won't win on your own.

I like your approach, ga. Have you been asked "Why?" much?