to feel despair at the gay marriage vote

Hi nathalie and welcome. The next 2 years of the coalition are going to be interesting aren't they. We'll be just entering the election campaign in 2 years time.

I think it was Theresa May who told Conference that the Tories were seen as the nasty party. Could this be a cynical ploy to present themselves as the touchy-feely nice party? I don't care about their motives, though, I am just very happy that the law has got through.

Oh, this is getting a bit "hate the Church of England" now. Not good.

What specifically are you complaining about j0? We can't really discuss this issue without bringing in the C of E can we, given that they are the established church and against this change in the law. In fact they have been fighting tooth and nail to stop it. And it still has to go through the lords which has nearly 30 seats reserved for its managers.
It is one of those historical moments when state and C of E are in conflict. If you do not like threads that debate issues around the C of E then you do not have to join us.

Complaining Isn't the right word. I just think it is ridiculous to talk about taking away the C of E' s licence to marry!

Just read read the last line of your post Jess.

Gobsmacked is the word that comes to mind.

It's not about hating anyone or anything; it's about removing people's and institutions' ability to act in discriminatory ways that are against the law. If being discriminatory is a conscience thing, well OK (maybe!), but it shouldn't be allowed in public spheres. Since the C of E is a 'state' church, it's public and needs to accept that what the majority of the public wants in a democratic society is what it should get.

I accept that that is probably not a watertight argument, but it just needs a few bungs andnit will be.

Is the C of E a "state" church? They always seem to have ministers from other churches at big state church do's. (Catholic, Methodist etc) Isn't it just Christianity that is regarded as the main religion of the country?

But I do think that any attempt to take away any licences from the C of E at the same time as bringing in gay marriage, would cause quite an uproar. To say the least!

I agree, it would. Bring it on

We are writing about this bill as if it has already passed into law, but the House of Lords is still a major obstacle.

As ever, anno!

I don't know a lot about the who-can-marry-people regulations, but I do know that DSIL2, who was ordained into the Anglican/Episcopalian Church (long story, no time for it right now) also has the same certificate as a registrar, to let him perform marriages. I believe that in England it is the place that is licensed, so if you are married anywhere that does not have a licence it has also ratified civilly, using the celebrant's signature as evidence.

However, in Scotland the place does not matter, it is the person who is licensed. That is how Madonna could marry in a remote castle, and my friends's son could marry in the Balmoral Hotel (the ceremony conducted by an old family friend who also happens to be licensed).

Shoulkd have put "to be" in between "has" and "ratified". More haste lass speed.

Less speed.

The problem for the CoE is that vicars etc also act as registrars and before the new legislation couldn't reasonably refuse parishioners who wanted to get married and who met the criteria agreed by church and state. Being a Christian isn't required though obviously when ministers of any religion are approached by couples, they mostly take the opportunity of a little proselytising. Up until the new law being passed, the couple marrying had to be one male, one female. The change in the law would have meant that the CoE, unlike any other religious denomination HAD to marry same sex couples. So the CoE and the Church in Wales have been forbidden from marrying same sex couples. Members of any other faith who can find a friendly minister of religion will be able to have a religious ceremony but members of the CoE won't. Let's hope the scrutiny committe and the Lords can sort it out.

Presumably members of the C of E who can't get married in their own church could go off to another sympathetic church - Methodist or Unitarian for instance - and get legitimately married there. Divorced couples have been doing this for ages. Indeed, Princess Anne had her second marriage in the Church of Scotland to circumvent the C of E prohibition on remarriage of divorcées.

Special treatment for the C of E, then. Is that what you're saying, lily? Time that was changed, I think. #disestablish

I don't follow the logic of forbidding the C of E and C o W to marry same sex couples. Lilygran?

Have they been forbidden? Or just individual vicars allowed to opt out if they wish.

Does anyone know what is actually planned? #buggeredifido

I understand everyone's point of view on gay marriage, but I would love to see
it being lawful. I have some gay friends who are much more in love than many heterosexual couples and would make much more of a commitment to each other.
I am a Christian and our priest is set against gay marriage after praying about it. I respect his views, but others pray and get the opposite 'answer'.
Not all married couples have children for whatever reason, and others marry late in life. Some gay couples are lucky enough to adopt, so nurturing children within the sanctity of marriage applies to them.
Still, it's not the end of the road for this debate, and arguments for and against are valid.
I don't think those who oppose it are bigots or homophobes, as has been suggested in some quarters.

As a good catholic and serious believer I should say, goodness no. But you see two of my dearest and most loyal friends are gay. They have been together for 30 plus years, they love one another and they work at their love all the time. I have been through 3 failed marriages, probably my fault but who knows. Who am I to judge? Who indeed are you? When people love each other and are willing to work at that love and make it whole, then let them have what they want. I admire the tenacity, the love, the effort.

What damage to society does it do if my friends are married? I'll tell you: a big fat ZERO. What damage does it do when people are forced to hide in the shadows and suffer misery and pain, rather a lot. What damage do we all do with our pathetic views and insufferable pontifications........ I leave you to think that one thourgh.

That is such a lovely post anxiousgran.

I think it should, and probably will eventually, be allowed in the church, with individual vicars being allowed to opt out if they wish. Nobody on earth can be in charge of someone else's soul.

J08 "...ensuring that the legislation will not affect the Canon law of the Church of England or the Church in Wales, i.e., unless Canon law and the same-sex marriage legislation are changed in future, both churches will be legally barred from performing same-sex marriages"

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage_in_the_United_Kingdom#Legislation

Oh right. So it hasn't got any further than registry office marriage? So why has the church got into this thread?