Birth control in the 21st century!

I have absolutely no objection to abortion in the case of rape and in the rare cases where women WITH their men have taken contraceptive precautions which have failed (which is actually very rare).

I do have real objections to abortion being used as a method of contraception, which is tragically not that rare.

I am very torn when it comes to abortion. If I was young in this day and age, and even now, could I even bring myself to take a possible life? Of course the stages of which people consider a fetus to be 'of life' vary dramatically.
Considering the well-known idea that Beethoven was born after several deaf, dumb, blind etc brothers and sisters, it makes me think that if a child was unplanned (rather than unwanted), is it right to say that there would be no chance or hope AT ALL of helping that child grow up and survive with or without the parent if abortion wasn't readily available?
With extremely young parents and girls becoming victim to rape, there's just always so much to consider...

Ceesnan, fortunately, forcible sterilisation of women who are competent to refuse is still illegal in Britain, no matter how much anybody disapproves of a woman's actions. Would any doctor be willing to carry out such a procedure on a healthy woman?
I know the parents of some girls with severe learning difficulties have asked the courts to say their daughters can be sterilised because they are afraid that they might be exploited and pregnancy would be injurious to their mental or physical health. I can't remember what the decisions were but it certainly presents a difficult ethical decision.

Eloethan in response to your query - Of course I'm not suggesting forcible sterilisation for all women. Possibly if you have another look at my comment to granjura you will realise I was referring to the two students she had mentioned and I stand by that remark.

Reynard - this has been discussed exhaustively on other threads - why don't you read what we have all been saying about large families, the Philpotts, etc.

I wonder if hostels for young mothers and babies, where they could be given guidance and find companionship, would be a viable option?

I am amazed that young people can be so casual about using contraception. At the young and flighty stage in my life, of one thing I was absolutely determined, no way was I going to do anything risky that might leave me pregnant. I had a good education, I had got to university and I knew a child too young would limit my choices. Self interest meant I never took risks, even when emotion and/or desire were threatening to be overwhelming.

ninathenana I am so sorry to hear this. Surely her GP and or obstetrician/gyneacologist will be able to give her the best advice for her case. She needs a second opinion though, I do not know of any who would refuse to sterilise her if she is advised NOT to have more children on medical grounds. Would her husband accept to have a vasectomy? But as said, there are many other solutions, and her GP/specialist will be able to discuss all the possibilities with her.

vasectomy? long acting implant?

My next door neighbour who works in an Abbeyfield home has a young girl working with her. She is single and her one ambition is 'to have a baby and then I'll get a flat!' I have heard this several times.

Slightly off topic

My DD has two boys both born with congential heart defects. She is 25 has been advised not to have more children as this could happen again. SIL and her have decided they won't have more. But they refuse to sterilize her because of her age !

The world has too many people in and on it and, as a result, we are running out of natural resources such as oil, coal and water. The UK does not have enough suitable land on which to build houses to cope with single parent families, divorcees and live aloners who are marrying later - if at all. We cannot afford the current level of benefits and the Philpott case brings into focus those who have children with the intent of living off child benefits and avoiding work. Perhaps we should consider helping responsible parents who replace themselves only and if they choose to have more than 2 children, they should pay for them with no help from the state? A reintroduction of apprenticeships would help those with more practical skills - this could replace the former 2 year national service to introduce discipline in both trade and life and provide the country with much needed artisans and this generation with work.

The reason the Netherlands (and my country) have very very low numbers of teenage pregnancy has nothing to do with better sex ed, I am absolutely sure of this (and yes, I'd like more research to find out the facts) - UK schools have the best sex ed long-term education in the world, from my personal observations in many schools - from a very early age discussing relationships, respect for oneself and others, peer pressure, etc- to extremely detailed factual info on all the methods and their drawbacks (that is not one of the approved methods btw) and risks, failure rates, etc. Sex ed in the UK is brilliant.

There is something 'broken' in some parts of British society, it is one of the most divisive in the world - where people live in separate ghettos too often, with separate and very divisive schools- and where different sections of the population never meet, never communicate, and are set one against the other. Where young people in some sections have little aspirations, little chances of mobility, and have grown up in families where this has been the case for several generations. And with the rest that does not care and see them, sometimes rightly, most of the time not, as scroungers. Where young women from early teenage are expected to 'serve' the young men sexually in a very sad way - and where they have not sufficient respect and confidence to say 'NO'. Where the expected love of a baby is seen as the only love they'll get. And, for some, where having a baby is seen as a means to access a flat and an independent life. Tragic.

There are anyways other methods apart from the Pill or condoms- and the information and access is there for every woman. And so it was from the 60s onwards, but much more so nowadays.

Mistakes do happen, with every method - but they are rare indeed, and solutions available when that happens too.

The problem is NOT lack of knowledge or availability of contraception, I am absolutely SURE of this. More actual research needed.

So we should teach and empower women NOT TO BE USED for sex by their peers. in the 21 C no woman should be pressured to have sex, and especially without protection, out of peer pressure, or to be 'liked'. This is sad beyond belief. It should always be a woman's decision - and hopefully a joint decision.

Unfortunately it's not always the woman's decision, especially if cannot take the pill or use other devices, for various reasons. Not all men are happy wearing condoms so yes accidents do happen (even with condoms)!

As the mother of a daughter (me) my mother alwasy said never comment on other people's daughter's as you don't know what tomorrow will bring. As the daughet I say - there but for the Grace of God go I - and as the mother of a daughter (now married with one planned and a second planned baby about to arrive any day) I say the same as my Mum!

I was always very careful about contraception and refused to take risks. But I was sad when I was told after my second child that I must not have any more, for my own health and safety. My husband then had a vasectomy. I probably would not have had any more, but the choice was taken away.

As a young woman, and single, I just could not countenance the thought of getting pregnant. This was not for moral or religious or even social reasons, but because I knew Mum would see me as utterly stupid, and being thought of as stupid was the one thing I could not bear!!

If I were young nowadays, the thought of all those STDs and HIV would ensure I never ever had sex without a condom, until I was in a safe relationship.

When I had my children, family allowance was paid from the second child onwards, none for the first, so couples who only had one child never got any family allowance.

My two children were very much planned - I thought having a baby was a serious matter that should not be left to chance. My sister, who had four accidents, (so she told her husband, but really she wanted them all) called me Mrs. Efficiency.
I took the pill for about six years but became worried about the long term effects. We are a very fertile family and I could not rely on other methods. I asked my GP in Wales to refer me for a tubal ligation, but he told me to come back when I had four children. I had just completed an arduous four year degree and was about to start teaching. Fortunately, we moved to the Wirral and a very sensible doctor decided I was quite intelligent enough to decide that I did not want any more children so I was sterilised when I was 34. What a relief.

Yes, I agree we could do with a lot more research into why young girls have babies - I suspect that for some it is wanting to have somebody who will love them, and to gain some kind of status in the community. They may have poor employment prospects too. One way of persuading them that it is not a good idea seems to be to have young mothers going into school and telling them about staying in when your mates are out partying and the endless work involved.

The Netherlands, I think, has a very thorough sex education programme and low rates of teenage pregnancy.

In light of the Mick Philpott case, perhaps there is an argument for benefits (including what used to be called Family Allowance, as in the non means tested child benefit that everyone was entitled to) being limited to the first 2 children only?

granjura, that particular event was in 1969, but our doctor always maintained "the more the merrier". He was a lovely man, we couldn`t have had a better GP, but for that one thing. He wasn`t best pleased when he found out that I was going to be sterilised, but he didn`t interfere.

Why inconvenient bluebell - this is brilliant news.

But there is no avoiding the fact that the UK still has the second highest teenage pregnancy rate in the world, after the US? And yet the best sex ed in the world s far as I have observed in all the schools I taught in.

And this is a serious question, please 'WHY'? Why much higher than anywhere else in Europe - where sex ed is practically non existent? I am absolutely sure that it is NOT because sex ed encourages sex and irresponsibility, as some from Christian groups claim. There are many other factors that come into play, and we need to seriously try to understand them and take action. For the kids sake (parents and children).

US has highest rate by far

Granjura - teenage pregnancy rates (under 18s) in England have been dropping - by more than 27% between 2001 -11. They are lower now than at any time since 1969. An inconvenient statistic maybe?

it's a dreadful concept- but what do you do with women who have 8+ children taken into care, one after the other- as they are totally unfit to look after them, and just keep having more? Yes, they are not numerous - I agree. But as said, with my colleague, we knew of 2 in our teaching careers, in the same area - so they can't be that rare either.

We keep talking about the children - if that good for the children, a life in care- as neither would release any of the children for adoption?