Healthcare - Nocare

I've just heard of someone [the mother of a friend] who is in hospital after having a stroke. they are withholding food, which I understand, but her son says she is desperately thirsty whenever he visits. Surely this is wrong?

gracesmum - sorry, I haven't looked at this thread for a while, so haven't answered your question (didn't mean to be rude). No, my mother went from the BGH to Kelso as she didn't need any acute care, just a lot of TLC. It's a small hospital run by GPs with visiting consultants. The sort which used to be called a cottage hospital. I'm glad you had such a good experience in the BGH (if the circumstances allow for the use of the term "good experience"!)

There are now 3 threads on the NHS topic and all along the same 'how awful it all is' lines - so I'm posting this to put it back up top with the other two!

I do realise I've been having a bit of a rant, but it makes me angry that something so precious and wonderful as the NHS is no longer either of those things and I can see that it is going so far in the wrong direction that we will all eventually have private health care and those that can't afford it will suffer beyond acceptable.

For sure, people visiting here are greeted with someone to translate - at a cost to us - and of course they should pay.

Changes - abandon GPs; set up 24/7 drop-in GP centres as an adjunct to A&E or in more rural areas drop-in centres with X-ray facilities. Triage at the point of entry to direct to the GP drop-in and clear the floor of all those people who no longer can be bothered to either phone their GP, or wait 2 weeks for an appointment, or are not official residents here, need a translator and don't get asked to pay first.

That should free up plenty of cash to address some of the problems on the wards. GPs used to go onto wards to care for patients they had referred and from drop-in centres, that too could happen. But for sure, the god whose name is printed above each hospital bed should be responsible for the total care of that patient.

And so much more!

Or are you saying people visiting here should pay?

Not sure what you are saying Nan - we should all pay for our drugs?

I went into a hospital in France - A&E - and wasn't allowed to pass 'go' until I'd produced my E Hick[?]. I couldn't leave until I'd paid for drugs - in fact the drugs were not passed across before I paid. I also had to speak French. Here each GPs surgery must have access to some 40 plus translators should a non-English speaker turfs up. Just two examples of waste that the NHS has to cope with at the price of essential staff.

Am I knocking the Health Service - absolutely for sure I am. Do I personally use it, nope. Am I concerned that people need to have absolute confidence in getting the right treatment when using it, absolutely.

Oh how wonderful it would be to actually have a sister in charge of every ward. Sadly that's not the case any more.

I wonder if, with your examples sunseeker, that isn't a post code lottery but about differences in staff attitudes and management. In the last year her life, my mother was in and out of the same hospital many times but different wards. It was like being on different planets - one was superb! The sister in charge was clearly that - in charge- but nurses apparently queued up to work on that ward because they got huge satisfaction from working in such a professional environment. When my mother died, I wrote a long letter to the hospital detailing what had been good and bad about her care. It could have been a good learning exercise but doubt it was used in that way. If I could bring in one change to the NHS to start with it would be a PALs desk on every ward and a mandatory system of dealing with complaints that ensured any lessons to be learned were implemented and monitored. I would make feedback on complaints the first item on board meetings and invite relatives/complainants along to discuss the issues with senior management and take part in training with staff at all levels.

I think there is a postcode lottery in the NHS. When my DH was in hospital I actually complained about one nurse who was off hand and dismissive, everything was too much trouble (I stayed with him and changed his pyjamas, changed his sheets, fed him and helped him to the toilet. Some of the other nurses were excellent, but when I complained about this particular nurse the ward manager told me she was the one who decided which nurse treated which patient and my complaint was dismissed. This was the main hospital in Bristol

I was then able to get him home, I live just outside Bristol, and his care by the District Nurses was wonderful. They turned up on time to change his pain relief, took time to answer my queries and treated him with care and respect. After he died I went to the doctors surgery to see my doctor and one of the District Nurses saw me and came to sit with me and offered condolences, asking if there was anything I needed.

Also Nanban I think you should be prepared to come up with some ideas for improvement - gracesmum has mentioned the excessive paperwork for example but that's a double edged sword - I'm aware of real harm being done to patients when there was not enough paperwork completed. A healthcare system is very complex to administer and we are not helped with the social/health care divide with patients with complex needs - many of whom are older. The social, demographic, economic, technological changes in society have all impacted on the health care system which is always playing catch up. Being a political football certainly doesn't help and I am certain that privatisation is making matters worse. I do not have a rosy view of the health service of my younger years either

Nanban - no I don't work for them but calling the NHS the sickest organisation in our country is neither rational nor logical and blanket condemnations are neither fair nor helpful

Today's Telegraph has an article by (Dr) Max Pemberton on the massive increase in paperwork - 30 minutes with a patient = at least one hour's letter writing/box ticking/report filling in etc.( Sorry no idea how to do the link but it is in the section "The Doctor Will See You Now") The point is also made that the nurse/patient staffing ratio is now available on line for any particular hospital so instead of actually doing something to remedy this, we have a (no doubt expensive) useless PR exercise.

I'm not knocking the NHS at all, more having a go at the government policies that are slowly but surely demolishing our health safety net.

A young [30] relative was in a large teaching hospital dying of cancer, he had been admitted unconscious. After 2 days no treatment was being administered, no liquids, no drugs, no food. He was in a side room with only 2 relatives allowed at one time - he became more and more distressed until his aunt [a nurse herself] went to the nurses station and had to get almost hysterical before they would agree to call the night staff to come and administer some sedation/pain relief.

Did they complain after, certainly not. They were having to deal with his death, funeral etc.

A blip in an otherwise blameless record, I doubt it. Misinterpretation on the part of the people involved, no.

WhenIwasyourage was your Mum in the BGH? I ask because both my parents died there and while the hospital might not have been at the cutting edge of the most advanced developments in medicine, they received cheerful loving care from local nurses- most of whom knew them personally as everybody knows everybody in the Borders and while Dad was dying, my sister (who was over from Canada) and I stayed over for the final 4 nights in the little side room they gave Dad, we had reclining chairs, enough cups of tea to sink the Jeanie Deans and were (absolutely accurately) advised when we could safely leave him for a shower, bit of a break etc. We managed to be there at the very last and when he had died they let us stay with him (bringing us more cups of tea) and showing great tact and humanity in all that they did. I could not have asked for more.

bluebell - I speak as I find and it has opened up a debate which appears quite rational, for pros and cons - you may notice, mostly cons. From your reaction could it be that you work for the NHS?

Can I just put in a word for some of the NHS at least? I am in Scotland, which helps, and it worries me that reports from England are so bad.

My mother died earlier this year after a fairly long decline, mentally and physically. The district nurses who helped her with her catheter were kind and caring, but the small local hospital where she spent the last 4 months of her life (she should have gone into a home, but by the time we found a place she was too ill) gave her the best possible care involving a lot of pretty heavy and personal nursing. The staff, nursing and medical, were kind to her and also to us, and as we all came from a long way from where she was, in the Borders, they allowed us to visit at almost any time (except, understandably, meal times) that any of us could manage. The care could only be described as wonderful.

The NHS in England is sadly disintegrating and I don't know what you can do about it, but I hope you can find some answer.

Wisewoman - I agree with you that the NHS in England is a long way down the privatisation route. That is confirmed by friends who work in the NHS and my own experience as a patient. The real problem is how any future government will find it possible to re-establish a properly funded NHS for the future.

Nanban - you are being really unfair with your blanket condemnation. Of course there are problems with the NHS but your hyperbolic comments do not contribute to any form of rational debate

The District Nurse certainly does oversee things - but in reality that means he/she calls once every now and again, is usually late, rushed to get through the 'to do' list and thinly spread.

The NHS is the sickest organisation in our country and whenever nurses want a pay rise what do we see on TV, paediatric intensive care. When was the last time during a pay dispute we saw geriatric, psychiatric or home care. No threat of legal action will change attitudes. There are too many shift changes, staff passing through for firm finger pointing. The person whose name appears over the bed should be the person responsible - but we all know that's not gonna happen.

re: the new laws that are being discussed at the moment to enable NHS staff to be prosecuted and imprisoned for poor care, does anyone know if this only relates to the NHS or to private providers also?

I think the NHS in England is much worse than in Scotland - further down the privatisation road! It used to be district nurses who did this sort of care now it is untrained underpaid carers. Am currently reading a book called The Plot Against the NHS by Colin Leys and STewart Player. It discusses the creeping privatisation of the NHS in England and everyone who cares about the NHS should read it. The authors claim that creeping privatisation is happening so gradually that we don't realise what is happening! At the moment the NHS in Scotland is much better but where England goes we will no doubt follow. It is scary for us oldies.

It's a disgusting and shameful situation but also slightly puzzling. When they talked about DGS having a PEG fitted DD was told the district nurse would call and oversee things.
Are we looking at another postcode lottery for care I wonder.