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To want to sob uncontrollably at this solution?

(72 Posts)
bluebell Sun 24-Nov-13 19:54:32

petra Wed 27-Nov-13 17:41:58

From what I read and hear, these attitudes are mostly coming from the Pakistani community. Malalas Father is an educated man and had read the Quran in Arabic and would not condone any of this nonsense about segregation.
Let's not forget that it was only in 2004 that Pakistan threw out a law that said a victim of rape had to have 4 male witnesses.

Riverwalk Wed 27-Nov-13 16:29:03

It's crazy and cowardly for the universities to give in to these unreasonable demands.

I lived and worked in Saudi Arabia for six months - during induction lectures, in-house training, etc men and women were not separated. The staff consisted of Saudis, Moslems from other countries, Aussies, Europeans, et al.

Garb included headscarf, bare-headed, full niqab, white lab coats, scrubs, so a mixture of people ..... not just Westerners or 'secular' types.

Did I mention that this was SAUDI ARABIA!!

janeainsworth Wed 27-Nov-13 16:09:32

Jess I'm reading Kathleen Jamie's 'Among Muslims' - she travelled in the Northern Areas of Pakistan in the early nineties and returned just after 9/11. She makes the point that what we see as oppression, they, both men and women, see as protection and they are happy with the separate existence.
That is fine, as long as those cultural norms aren't imposed on our society and why Universities UK have chosen to issue these guidelines remains a mystery.

JessM Wed 27-Nov-13 13:20:57

Just read Toynbee article. I wonder if a BNP speaker said that they would like the audience segregated by colour, what would be made of that.
I also wonder - are Islamists making a high minded point about women's separate role - or do they just think men will be uncontrollably inflamed by sitting in close proximity to a woman? hmm

petra Wed 27-Nov-13 13:13:46

' it has become the norm and most of us have become aperthetic'
Not me.
At the moment I am reading ' I am Malala' For those that are not familia with the name, it is the story of the 15 yr old girl who was shot in the head by the Taliban. Read it. If you are unaware of what these people want, this will educate you.

thatbags Wed 27-Nov-13 13:00:04

But i think that means that the true meaning of liberal is changing to something less good than it should be.

thatbags Wed 27-Nov-13 12:58:57

Your last line is bang on, pogs. That's what's so depressing.

thatbags Wed 27-Nov-13 12:58:12

POGS Tue 26-Nov-13 21:08:27

Why the surprise? We have been told stories such as this for years.

It is completely wrong, it is Racism. It is the continual 'Thin edge of the wedge' that has been written about for so long now, it has become the norm and most of us have become apathetic to it's serious implication for us as a country.

Why? Because if challenges are made to this behaviour, what happens? Usually you are called a Right Wing Racist or suchlike. The fact this is happening in our Universities is hardly shocking. Universities are the bastion of Liberal thinking are they not.

Mind numbing madness given credence to by intellectual morons.

Elegran Tue 26-Nov-13 20:14:04

Petra There are Orthodox Jews and there are Conservative Jews and there are Reform Jews.

Kindling fire is one of the 39 types of work that the Torah prohibits on the Sabbath. Starting a car is like creating a fire, which burns fuel and gives the car energy. So is switching on an electric light or heater.

Orthodox Jews do not drive a car on the Sabbath. My daughter-in-law goes only where she can walk or cycle (in daylight, without using a lamp) on the Sabbath. Some Conservative Jews and Reform Jews will drive on the Sabbath for specific purposes such as going to synagogue or visiting family and friends. They are observing the spirit of the Sabbath day, but not strictly following the Biblical prohibitions.

The majority of Jews today do drive cars on the Sabbath. They drive so either because their interpretation of "Sabbath rest" differs from the traditional Biblical reading or they simply do not actively practice Judaism.

None of them deserve sarcasm.

Iam64 Tue 26-Nov-13 19:36:59

thanks for the link nano

annodomini Tue 26-Nov-13 14:19:11

Polly Toynbee reacting to this strange dictat.

Galen Tue 26-Nov-13 13:51:00

Covering in this country is unhealthy as the majority of our vit D is produced by exposure to sun. The darker skinned people who also cover have a much higher proportion of vit D defiency diseases. Such as ricketts.

Iam64 Tue 26-Nov-13 13:39:28

Oh dear oh dear, unpleasant comments seem to be going forth to multiply. I accept I'm in the firing line, as I fit into the woolly liberal, do gooding approach to life.

In response to comments about Friday prayers and parking regulations, I'd add that the two churches either end of our village both have double yellow lines, which are ignored on Sunday morning, and for weddings and funeral drop offs. The mosque down the road is the same. I found your comment about Jewish people, parking and walking to the synagogue just a tad nasty petra. I live a couple of miles from a traditional Jewish area where anti semitism and racist attacks on the Jewish cemetery are on the up again.

I am completely opposed to the notion that seating by gender separation is appropriate in any of our schools or universities. I dislike the notion that women's hair or body has to be covered, otherwise men won't be able to contain their sexuality. What a load of tosh.

I completely agree that it's a real concern there have been no prosecutions for FGM despite it being illegal since the 80's.

Living in a country where we can debate such issues openly is very important to me. Let's try and do it without resorting to bigotry. I don't claim to be right about anything, but I do claim the right to discuss difficult stuff whilst trying not to cause unnecessary offence.

petra Tue 26-Nov-13 11:13:02

Well said BAnanas.
The parking rules don't change, dorsetpennt, they are ignored and nothing happens. I have a synagogue very near me and our road is full on Saturdays.
Funny that, as Jews are required to walk to the Synagogue.
On the over crowding issue. Well let's just keep building and building, shall we. Then nobody will have any open countryside to look at from a train window.

BAnanas Tue 26-Nov-13 10:26:09

It's the creeping by stealth that is so dangerous here. Those who are willing to capitulate in the name of appeasing a minority do the rest of society a real disservice. Would this happen in France? I doubt it, France have categorically stated that educational institutions are run along secular lines and therefore no religions have any concessions. After this latest travesty in our universities, I'm beginning to think they are right. It's the hand wringing of a section of "do gooders" in Britain who bend over backwards trying to cater for the out of step demands of a minority that is so abhorrent, completely ignoring they are pissing off the majority. It also occurs to me that possibly that minority are also trying to a) push boundaries to see how far they can go or b) Trying to be provocative. It's the thin end of the wedge. I don't agree with France's stance in arresting women with face coverings, although I find them an awful sight, but would definitely ban the burka in public places for obvious reasons. I do however agree with France in their attitude to properly investigating the FGM issue. There have never been any prosecutions in the UK even though we know it goes on in our country. Shame on us for being so gutless!

JessM Tue 26-Nov-13 10:02:52

agile full employment unless you happened to be a woman.
Faye he finds these comments very amusing. But I have seen the coverage of Uk affairs in Australian media and they are very limited.
petra what is overcrowded - I did a train journey yesterday for 3 hours that was almost all through very un-crowded countryside.
It's a very thorny issue isn't it gracesmum but I don't get the impression that the French are handling their immigrant populations as successfully as the UK. No problem with headscarves myself - they are just a fashion really. As anyone who visits London or Birmingham will see for themselves smile
Fully covering women in this country is just not healthy.

NfkDumpling Tue 26-Nov-13 09:17:02

Parking rules change on Fridays? I assume they must be different on Sundays for Christians and Saturdays for Jews as well?

dorsetpennt Tue 26-Nov-13 09:16:20

Why would you 'sob uncontrollably' at this article? However, I share your concern about segregation of the sexes and I don't want to see it here.

petra Tue 26-Nov-13 08:46:13

So what is a rational debate, Bluebell.
Am I irrational if I say my country is getting overcrowded.
Am I irrational if I say I don't want to see women covered.
That parking rules apply ( in my area ) but change on Friday( Friday prayers)
I could go on, but I think you get my gist.

Aka Mon 25-Nov-13 22:24:19

Jess if someone is being deliberately unkind or downright rude to another poster then it is quite acceptable to suggest the person to whom the comment is addressed ignore it.

There is a tendency to overuse of the word 'rational' that I find amusing and ironic grin

annodomini Mon 25-Nov-13 21:46:29

agile75, you might like to ponder what happened to the plentiful council housing of the 1960s. Margaret Thatcher happened. She promoted the sell-off of these properties, leaving no replacements. Councils were not allowed to use the revenues from sales to build new housing. A thriving construction industry is now in decline when there are many families in need of homes. I could also mention that Thatcher's policy of 'selling off the family silver' has led to a significant proportion of our utilities and our train companies ending up in the hands of foreign companies. So don't be so quick to accuse the 'liberal wing' of waving banners, please.

Faye Mon 25-Nov-13 21:31:37

If you say so bluebell. smile

bluebell Mon 25-Nov-13 21:19:31

I can speak for myself - I thought your post Faye was not rational
nor logical given the point at issue - giving away rights for decades, Sharia law all over the place, a rant about immigration

janeainsworth Mon 25-Nov-13 20:30:10

I'm not sure that attempting to decide which is the worse country, Australia or Britain, is either helpful or relevant.