Denied Contact? How to move forward?

Sycamore not only do you have insight but you are prepared to act on it. Your comments link to that article that Tiger referred to in her earlier post. Being a people pleaser and yearning for everyone to get along can be quite a burden, albeit a positive characteristic and one that lends itself to mending relationships.

anno I wonder what prompted Tolstoy to make that pronouncement? I routinely visited families when I was busy working, and would discuss and agonise with colleagues who had also been out on visits, agreeing that some families are united in their misery and have so much in common with their neighbours who would gather daily in one house to grumble about the world and drag each other back from attempts to change, to a contented but unhappy status quo.

Controversial, I know, but perhaps more people than we realise don't want to move on from the comfort of their misery? Maybe support and offers of help just cause discomfort and rejection of help can temporarily empower them. For some, short term fixes or 'wins' outweigh dealing with the alternative, which can require some discomfort and self-examination.

Wouldn't it be great if the brave people who keep trying always got results? I wonder whether there has been any progress for those grandparents who met with Esther Rantzen a couple of weeks ago?

I like your Tolstoy quote Anno!

I'm curious in what way are all happy families alike? Without getting into a pity party (DH said this phrase to me the other day and it made me laugh, I think he's been watching MTV again!) I'm not sure I've ever really known what a'happy family' is. By family do you mean you immediate family? In which case I would say DH, me and our son are happy. In fact when it's just us its the happiest I've ever known. When you start adding in other family members it starts to go a bit wrong! I imagine a happy family is one which involves mutual respect for all family members, whether they are blood relatives or in laws. Boundaries are something I really need to work on but I suspect that these come from respect. I would like to throw a question back at you! Do you think that families that have gone through a messy divorce can ever really be happy or do they just find a way of working it out so they muddle along?

Sycamore. I am sure you are right (thank you). I have very low self esteem due to some awful events in my life. (I realise that I'm not the only one who has had bad events). My DH is always saying to me 'the way you feel about yourself is not the way others feel about you'. My DD has her own problems and has, I'm sure, never thought any of the things I am worrying about.

Leo Tolstoy: 'All happy families are alike; each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way.'

Discuss!

Stansgran, KatyK, I'm going to go out on a limb here and this is my own viewpoint because I don't know the people involved, but I would guess your appearance, your education, all that is not even something your daughter is thinking about. You sound like you are beating yourself up unnecessarily.

I think the guilt thing for me is probably driving a lot of my own behaviour, I constantly have this need to fix things and make it all better. When I was a kid my mum went through a very dark patch and I pretty much propped her up, trying to make her feel better, walking on eggshells. My counsellor thinks we swapped roles and I became the parent and she the child, I think she might have got a bit too comfortable in that role, maybe as have I. Now I feel like she is my problem to fix and make sure she is happy, even though she is now married and has a husband. She's also pushed away a lot of her own family to the point where it's just me on the scene. I have a sibling but they live abroad and keep their distance. My son is very young and we do have contact with her, it's just so stressful in case something comes up that triggers her off. She is very jealous of my relationship with my dad and has constantly put him down over the years saying very negative things. I have a great relationship with my dad and I work hard to protect it.

I hate the Christmas adverts! They always make me feel really sad as I always seem to buy into that happy families myth!

Thanks for your PM tiger, I appreciate your support.

Sorry that should have been Thursday morning musings! I need another cuppa!

Hello Sycamore, I'm so glad you've taken the plunge. I think your contribution is going to be so helpful to all of us. I really admire your outlook in wanting to understand the situation, it sounds like you've been dealing with a significant emotional burden for a long time. As Annodomini says, guilt is a very powerful and destructive force. Have you got to the bottom of why you are feeling guilty and looked at it from an objective point of view to test out its validity? You may be blaming yourself for things that were completely beyond your control when you were a child.

Whenim64, I'm glad you like the article. I thought it was very refreshing in its tone, especially from different perspectives. The points at the end are geared towards being realistic rather than a 'quick fix' solution, which I think is much more helpful.

Minty, I hope you come back at some point! Your wise words will be missed.

Smileless, I'm in agreement with you on family rifts being more of a norm than we as society admit. Do you think it's because of our expectations as a society that we should all be functioning happy families as portrayed in the media (xmas adverts being the worst!) or perhaps something else? I think this expectation puts a lot more pressure on us when things do go wrong, as you say we look at other families and assume that they are happy when it might not be the case. Have families changed over the years? I remember hearing stories about how the war brought people together and everyone had to share because they didn't have anything. Nowadays we have so much and our expectations and those of our children are different, does this affect our relationships? Just some Wednesday morning musings!

Stansgran - that could have been me posting! I have felt as you do, is my DD ashamed of me - my appearance, lack of achievements, terrible upbringing etc. I have decided, as you have, to stop boring everyone with it. I don't think our children mean anything by it at all. They are just getting on with their lives. Hard for us but that's how it is.

sycamore hello and welcome.
I'm wondering if it would be possible for you and your mother to agree that past hurts are not to be resurrected when you meet.
Family rifts can be very simple: there's a row, nobody wants to be seen to 'back down' and parent or (adult) child withdraws (in a huff) and communication breaks down.
Or very complex: dripping tap effect, personality clashes, things said or done that create ongoing wounds, pre-existing difficulties amongst wider family etc.
There is no 'one size fits all' solution and blame and 'rehearsing' the other person's shortcomings isn't helpful on my opinion. Sometimes not all parties want there to be a reconciliation so much as they want others to concede they are in the 'right'. If the latter is the case then hope for progress is hard to nurture. For all of us who are estranged there is always the hope that when our grandchild/ren reach adulthood they may initiate contact for themselves.

That's a helpful article you linked, Tiger. I especially liked the last paragraph. Realistic and practical.

I keep trying to write what I am really feeling, but no doubt I would offend someone.
So to anyone who is just new to this please remember there is support and help out there, you will come out from the dark tunnel and you will move on, you will see the sun rise albeit in a different light you will see it.
Everyone has their own way of dealing with separation, thanks to those who are not able to be with their grandchildren and thank you to those who are not separated but have ,as far as I can see, given their support and constructive ideas freely.
Family relationships that breakdown are so destructive to the whole family we have to be constructive otherwise it just continues.
Keep working at it, keep healthy emotionally and physically and keep an open heart and mind.
As in all things we have to sometimes agree to disagree, but I am now finding the remarks by some, just my opinion, over the last 24 hours extremely unhelpful, so goodness knows how it has made someone who is just starting out on their own journey of separation has felt, visiting for the first time.
I won't be posting anymore on this subject, but thank you again to all the pm's and support.

Sycamore, at the end of your last post you bring in the subject of guilt. In my experience guilt is very destructive and I hope you will think this through and conclude that, from your account, it sounds as if you have nothing to feel guilty about. Please leave the ball in your mother's court and cherish the wonderful relationships you do have.

I don't know where that came from. I meant to say to Sycamore put your husband and child first. I read somewhere quite recently you serve your parents lunch first but but your children you rescue first.

Sycamore I hope you find some help here. I was so pleased to read Tigert's post . I have a very busy daughter who appears to find it almost impossible to communicate with me. The almost is the significant word. I have decided not to pester her and to stop boring my friends to death about not hearing from her. I wondered if she was ashamed of my appearance, that I didn't make the best of myself ,that I wasn't as well educated as she ,all these things and helped by Minty's post I have stopped. Her children have emails and I send them pictures of things I have made etc but they access (reasonably) their emails through their parents computers. Her husband I know tries to keep lines of communication open,they need us to look after the children for the summer. It's all very peculiar.

Thank you for your warm welcome, I must admit after seeing how newbies were welcomed (or not!) I was reluctant to post. It was actually Tiger's post that made me come forward. I know I've made mistakes, that bit about 'horns and halos' was really interesting. As soon as I try to talk to people about my situation they instantly tell me I'm in the right and start to slag off my mum, which isn't really helpful as that's my mum! I know they are just trying to be good friends but it isn't really helpful as I feel backed into a corner. I want to understand, I really do, that's why I chose to post.

My husband has been a god send through all this, he's seen me sobbing in tears following another nasty row with my mum. She'll say something really nasty to hurt me and it'll go round and round my head for days. My husband is starting to get angry with the situation as he says he hates seeing me like this, I think he feels he needs to protect his wife and son. I know that their relationship is now suffering as he will only be polite when he sees her now and not natural. I am so tired of trying but I can't give up because I'm not sure how ill live with the guilt.

Welcome to Gransnet Sycamore. I think that having sought therapy was a positive step as is going to the gym to work out your frustration; hope it helps, it helps me.

Do you have any contact with your mother at the moment? Rejection is such a painful thing to experience and as you have already found there are no easy answers. It's so hurtful when you're accused of lying, when all you are doing is being honest. Stepping back was the right thing to do for both of you as at least that puts a stop to hurtful and upsetting exchanges.

If you haven't decided to already, Mother's Day at the end of March could be an opening for you; just a card to remind your mum that you still care. You don't say how old your child is or if s/he sees your mum. If there is no contact between them and questions are asked, all you can do is try to make your responses as positive as you can.

Be gentle with your self. If you feel you have done all you can for the time being and need to continue stepping back then that's what you must do.

I do hope that you will find the support you seek and having taken the first step, you'll post again. and best wishes for you.

What a welcome contribution, Sycamore. Glad you decided to post on here. Do stay around and give more of your perspective on things, and I hope in return we can come up with some comments that you find useful.

Thank you smileless it's a subject that people back away from. No one wants to discuss it and abruptly changes the subject if you try, just like our new poster did!

It just goes to show that statements like 'I understand how you feel' are a load of bull****.

I'm also ashamed that Sycamore a new poster and in need of support feels she has to say 'please be gentle with me'. I hope you find some comfort here
sycamore

Welcome sycamore and sorry you have that problem. Interesting to hear from the daughter side.

It sounds like you really tried to find solution so that is very sad, if only my daughter would even talk to us but nothing for 5 years! All lovley cards and presents and letters totally ignore! Always. Her husband will not allow her to talk to her dad each time he has tried to visit.

I really think you may have done the best thing to walk away from what you have said. You tried so hard to sort the problems.

My daughter said she had new family now that hurt so badly.

Tiger tiger that link did not work for me can you post another one?

Hi all,

Please be gentle with me!

I'm a newbie perhaps with a twist! I'm actually the daughter who is estranged from her mother and I have a child myself. The estrangement was instigated on my mother's part because after many years of therapy I actually did bring up issues from my past that have caused me much pain and did really happen! I might not have done it in the right manner but I felt like we needed to confront these issues if we were to have a healthy honest relationship. Well needless to say it didn't go well. My mother called me a liar, said I was making it all up and then rejected me. I didn't want to leave it at that so I tried to build bridges with her but tbh every time I saw her after that she used my words as a weapon to bash me with, telling me how much I hurt her and what I done to her, that id made her ill. Things just got worse and worse to the point where I had to take a step back from the verbal abuse. I don't want to cut her out but nor do I want a toxic relationship based on me feeling guilty all the time. I need some different perspectives on this because I want to be fair.

I've been lurking for a while, not sure whether I should post. I read your post with interest Tiger (after all the contraversy surrounding it!) and also that article you posted. I agree that the intensity does get in the way. I think the mother/daughter lines between us have been blurred because it was just the two of us making it difficult to establish boundaries. I've tried therapy but she just doesn't want to know. I fear there's no happy resolution to this. I don't want my child to suffer or used as a weapon by either of us.

I go to the gym to get my frustration out! I'd love to be into gardening but I don't have one!!!

Anyway would appreciate positive suggestions.

Thanks

Sycamore

I am so very sorry for your loss Aka and for the fact that you had no one who you felt could understand your grief; for you.

I agree Tigertiger that setting goals and exercise are useful tools when faced with extremely difficult situations. I went back to the gym last October after more than 3 years. I knew that regular exercise would help reduce my stress and that getting out of the house and meeting new people would be a positive step. As for projects, well I have a few in mind but haven't got them off the ground yet. Mind you, have spent the last 2 months painting and decorating so haven't had the time either. A project I hadn't anticipated but a project none the less.

I think that family rifts being more of a norm than first thought is spot on. When faced with a rift, it's all too easy to look at other families and assume that they are free of problems and yours is the only one in trouble. That's what makes this, and other threads so invaluable. I'll have to go on line and read the article you've mentioned.

Insightful not in rightful, but hey ho perhaps my iPad has it correct!

Truly.....'There's none so blind as those who will not listen'

Quote by Neil Gaiman: quite in rightful for a 'young man'.

And very insightful Absent for spotting that.

Interesting points Aka. In that spirit, let's get back on track over here and focus on what this thread is about.

Anyone got any more positive suggestions they have found has worked for them? Doesn't have to be 'the big answer!' just things that make you or your significant other feel better or brings peace.

For me, exercise and setting goals seems to help. I love projects that I can throw myself into (I'm one of those projects btw ;-)) I love planning out my garden and I'm dipping a toe into property development! It's exciting and scary at the same time but I'm learning new things about myself all the time. Anyone else embarking on something new?

I think this thread is the place to discuss moving on and the COOTL thread is the place for mutual comfort. There is much to be gone through before people are ready to move on.

Though not a bereavement, there are similar feelings to be worked through, such as denial, anger, etc. And people need to work through such feelings. Unlike a bereavement when all hope is gone, there is still the possibility of a 'result' but equally there is also possibility that the situation can be exacerbated by either side and so the cycle of pain goes on.

I repeat, on the COOTL thread they do not need advice or solutions they just need someone to listen.

PS 'yes, but....' isn't listening