Illegal immigration - what to do?

Boer women, children and men unfit for service were herded together in concentration camps by the British forces during Anglo-Boer War 2 (1899-1902). The first two of these camps (refugee camps) were established to house the families of burghers who had surrendered voluntarily, but very soon, with families of combatant burgers driven forcibly into camps established all over the country, the camps ceased to be refugee camps and became concentration camps. The abhorrent conditions in these camps caused the death of 4 177 women, 22 074 children under sixteen and 1 676 men, mainly those too old to be on commando, notwithstanding the efforts of an English lady, Emily Hobhouse, who tried her best to make the British authorities aware of the plight of especially the women and children in the camps

We may have been " beaten to" the idea of concentration camps by a Spanish general with the appealing nickname of "Butcher" but the British cannot be holier than thou about this iniquitous system. We knew what we were doing.
I hesitate to make the next point as all concentration camps in WW II were barbaric and an affront to humanity, but the term covers "work camps" and the even more infamous "extermination camps". Let's at least be accurate.

Good post Papa. Make those of us who live in UK think about protection of our homeland and a way of life that we wish to live and what our ancestors struggled, fought and died for. Tolerance of other cultures, for one. But this is a two way street.

Well said, Joan. But looking at the gun attack in Tunisia on Sky news and the lifestory of the gunman this morning, how do we assess the motives of "refugees"? More than 12,000 plus young Tunisians headed to Iraq and Syria to fight with IS. Does that not show where their loyalties lie? According to news report, in 2008 Australia made it quite clear that no boat people refugees would be allowed into that country and, guess what - they stopped heading there. I think also that Australia were paying the human traffickers of boat people more money to take their human cargo elsewhere. All Tony Blair's fault for using his royal prerogative as PM (no need to ask Parliament for discussion and permission) and taking us into war with Saddam Hussein. Why were we not more vocal against this at the time? Why did we not listen to the moderate Arab states who said "be careful"?

www.politics.co.uk/news/2015/03/03/damning-parliamentary-report-threatens-to-blow-doors-off-det

Yarls Wood?

no 'we' did not invent concentration camps in the Boer war

'The British were not the first in the modern age to use the concentration camp system. The Spanish General Valeriano 'Butcher Weyler had enforced a similar system on a far larger scale to crush a rebellion in Cuba in 1896, leaving more than 100,000 dead. The United States authorities had also established concentration camps to suppress the insurrection in the Philippines early in 1899.'
(The term concentration camp has also been highly emotive since the advent of Nazi Germany’s death and labour camps. However, it is worth noting that there is very little similarity between the Nazi camps and the concentration camps established by the British army in the second Boer War. The latter were not set up with the express intention of exterminating a section of the human race, but to deprive the Boer commandos of supplies and to induce the burghers to surrender. Things went horribly wrong because of the poor administration of the camps by the British and their callous lack of care.)

still very bad in the context of history - but we have moved on since then and I do feel that referring to any 'camp' as a 'concentration camp' is very emotive and incorrect.

Info from the BBC History website.

We did see this coming, Enoch Powell warned us in 1968.

Just saw on the news that some of those refused refugee status just refused to leave. What then? What a shambles. We somehow didn't see this coming as the next big problem. There always seems to be something though.....

No! Not secure camps! Process their claims, weed out the economic immigrants from the genuine refugees, and send the economics back. Guess what? That's what they are doing. Apart from the ones that get away, that is.

@TriciaF - After all, we did invent the Concentration Camp, back in Boer War days...

Joan good post just needs the leadership!

Joan

Did anyone see the interview with a lorry driver earlier on BBC? He said many of the young men trying to get into his lorry were armed with knives, broken bottles, even machetes.
Perhaps they're desperate but that's going too far. They need to be rounded up and placed somewhere secure, which would take more police or even soldiers. Britain needs to send forces over.
And as Joan says, build secure camps for some in the UK.

I was watching interviews with some of these migrants in Calais and they seemed to think the streets of London were lined with gold, as it were. One had passed through Turkey, Greece, France and countries in between and when questioned as to why he hadn't asked for asylum in any of those countries seemed to think the UK was the best country to aim for.

Good plan Joan! Humane and sensible. Just have to implement it.

Exactly, Joan. However, this country could not do without wars; we sell far too many weapons to corrupt leaders.
We'd have enough money if we did not replace Trident.

You know, the problem is about numbers and volume, not principles. I think we all would like to help those in trouble from their destroyed societies, whether destroyed by war, famine, natural disaster, or ethnic hatreds.

But we love our countries and do not want our social cohesion destroyed by an influx of people with different religions, attitudes, and way of life. The bad behaviour of a handful of British Muslims, problems with Roma, and East European crime gangs, and the ethnic separatism of many Muslims acts as a cautionary tale.

I think Europe should set up refugee camps, but they should be well run, with health and education as a priority, and family life preserved. The people running them should be governments, not firms with a profit motive. Australia has proved private companies in charge of vulnerable people to be a recipe for cruelty.

Before moving on, the refugees should be skilled in the language of the country they will move to, understand society's social mores, in good health, and better educated. Trouble makers should be dealt with, and sent back if possible. If their own country has returned to peace and safety, they should all go back, but this time they would be better educated, and with a better understanding of how thing work for the better.

Then, when refugees do arrive in western industrialised societies, they will be an asset not a liability.

Where would the money come from? Where would the money come from to deal with what is happening right now? Money is always found to run wars. How about finding money to run a peaceful solution?

You'll be pleased to hear that the judge decided they could not be deported, and that Qatar airways refused to take them anyway today.

Actually to Saudi Arabia, but her husband is Syrian.
Please read, those of you who think people should be sent back home, and pass on on facebook.
She could be sent back tomorrow, so it's urgent.

What do you think of this?

email.change.org/mpss/c/ygA/3CE/t.1o5/77DZxmIOT2qTWI-4pF-gGQ/h3/KLcqj6mm2DNwtPZFTP391kz8XlAzuP-2FhFrHwxEd2ZWcsERWR9NQTn9M14VhvF4kho-2BHwTSntoAwJ7fU-2B-2F-2F9OMOZS00ZAvOF3ufLV-2BnFabkntKcI5ZZiMuYMMw7Hmo8MStnDbUTZOQk1XJby-2Fv7R-2FBan4gksI2LGENSCRu5mSn5KZVLeKhiZlwcr-2Fr-2BkpbSNi9QsRhgobCy9gmW3jzvWq199jc9o4hfJjj5g2cxmtQVshWB-2FCMA64pJSR-2F5lGzQSegJ3p8YZmNzDIsUCRayqbpAS1ef8XC0Oo2p-2BuDaqJ99g-3D

The woman concerned is going to be sent to Syria from Yarls Wood detention centre.
I hope some of you sign it.

Excellent post Riverwalk. About mothers and grandmothers of those young men- if you do get a chance to see the French film 'welcome' it is amazingly moving- and makes you realise that these young men are just that, the sons of mothers and grandmothers somewhere- just like ours.

I have no idea what the answer is. It's clear that Europe, especially the 2 favourite 'target' countries, the UK and Switzerland- just cannot absorb all the misery and suffering of the world. Switzerland btw has a much higher % of immigrants than the uk- and it is a tiny country- with a large part taken up my inhabitable places, mountains and lakes.

But suggesting all migrants should be blown up and shot on sight is just pure racist fashism and should not be allowed on a public forum- I've re-read the forum rules, and it clearly is racist.

We tend to forget as well how many of us come from economic migrant parents, grand and grand-grand parents- be it from Ireland or Italy, etc. And vast numbers of our relatives over generations have been economic migrants to elsewhere in the past. In the 30s- my father's 2 older sisters and 2 older brothers, with about 20 youngster from our small Swiss village were given 100£, and a one-way ticket to Le Havre and a second class ticket to New York- as the family couldn't feed them. My OH's parents came to UK to escape Apartheid, but also to find better work, education and prospects. They did require help at first- but all have done amazingly well and paid back to the UK 10000s of times via their work and taxes, etc.

I never saw the objectionable posting which apparently mentioned machine gunning etc. It was rightly removed. My point is that what are we supposed to do? Welcome all comers and sink under the social and financial implications? We can't! Traffickers must be prevented from their evil conscience free trade and the countries people are trying to leave should be encouraged to develop in such a way that their residents don't want to leave. Almost impossible! What exactly do you suggest?

I don't think anyone is saying any such thing Jane10 but that mining the coast and installing machine guns is not the solution!

Just an observation: by an accident of birth most of us on this board were born in a civilized, calm and functioning country - some people are not so lucky.

I truly hope that the UK is not hit by some terrible natural disaster e.g. earthquake and my sons and grandchildren are not forced to scramble for shelter somewhere in the world - and if that did happen I'd be desperate to know that they are not treated as savages and vermin and left to rot at the dockside.

The mothers and grandmothers of those young men who cling onto lorries and hide in the landing gear of planes must be worried sick.,

Screening of some kind - yes.
Greeting them all with a round of gunfire and letting in no-one - no.

So we just let absolutely everyone that want to move here for whatever reason and happily pay for them and obediently queue behind them at the Drs, the job centre and put up with a massive reduction in available housing? It can't realistically be done. America has its green card scheme, you need working visas for Oz and we have our own rules for immigrants. I bet those people trapped at Calais were all told how wonderful and easy it would be. I wonder if they contact their families back home and tell them how they've been duped by people smugglers