Illegal immigration - what to do?

You'll be pleased to hear that the judge decided they could not be deported, and that Qatar airways refused to take them anyway today.

You know, the problem is about numbers and volume, not principles. I think we all would like to help those in trouble from their destroyed societies, whether destroyed by war, famine, natural disaster, or ethnic hatreds.

But we love our countries and do not want our social cohesion destroyed by an influx of people with different religions, attitudes, and way of life. The bad behaviour of a handful of British Muslims, problems with Roma, and East European crime gangs, and the ethnic separatism of many Muslims acts as a cautionary tale.

I think Europe should set up refugee camps, but they should be well run, with health and education as a priority, and family life preserved. The people running them should be governments, not firms with a profit motive. Australia has proved private companies in charge of vulnerable people to be a recipe for cruelty.

Before moving on, the refugees should be skilled in the language of the country they will move to, understand society's social mores, in good health, and better educated. Trouble makers should be dealt with, and sent back if possible. If their own country has returned to peace and safety, they should all go back, but this time they would be better educated, and with a better understanding of how thing work for the better.

Then, when refugees do arrive in western industrialised societies, they will be an asset not a liability.

Where would the money come from? Where would the money come from to deal with what is happening right now? Money is always found to run wars. How about finding money to run a peaceful solution?

Exactly, Joan. However, this country could not do without wars; we sell far too many weapons to corrupt leaders.
We'd have enough money if we did not replace Trident.

Good plan Joan! Humane and sensible. Just have to implement it.

I was watching interviews with some of these migrants in Calais and they seemed to think the streets of London were lined with gold, as it were. One had passed through Turkey, Greece, France and countries in between and when questioned as to why he hadn't asked for asylum in any of those countries seemed to think the UK was the best country to aim for.

Did anyone see the interview with a lorry driver earlier on BBC? He said many of the young men trying to get into his lorry were armed with knives, broken bottles, even machetes.
Perhaps they're desperate but that's going too far. They need to be rounded up and placed somewhere secure, which would take more police or even soldiers. Britain needs to send forces over.
And as Joan says, build secure camps for some in the UK.

Joan

Joan good post just needs the leadership!

@TriciaF - After all, we did invent the Concentration Camp, back in Boer War days...

No! Not secure camps! Process their claims, weed out the economic immigrants from the genuine refugees, and send the economics back. Guess what? That's what they are doing. Apart from the ones that get away, that is.

Just saw on the news that some of those refused refugee status just refused to leave. What then? What a shambles. We somehow didn't see this coming as the next big problem. There always seems to be something though.....

We did see this coming, Enoch Powell warned us in 1968.

no 'we' did not invent concentration camps in the Boer war

'The British were not the first in the modern age to use the concentration camp system. The Spanish General Valeriano 'Butcher Weyler had enforced a similar system on a far larger scale to crush a rebellion in Cuba in 1896, leaving more than 100,000 dead. The United States authorities had also established concentration camps to suppress the insurrection in the Philippines early in 1899.'
(The term concentration camp has also been highly emotive since the advent of Nazi Germany’s death and labour camps. However, it is worth noting that there is very little similarity between the Nazi camps and the concentration camps established by the British army in the second Boer War. The latter were not set up with the express intention of exterminating a section of the human race, but to deprive the Boer commandos of supplies and to induce the burghers to surrender. Things went horribly wrong because of the poor administration of the camps by the British and their callous lack of care.)

still very bad in the context of history - but we have moved on since then and I do feel that referring to any 'camp' as a 'concentration camp' is very emotive and incorrect.

Info from the BBC History website.

Yarls Wood?

www.politics.co.uk/news/2015/03/03/damning-parliamentary-report-threatens-to-blow-doors-off-det

Well said, Joan. But looking at the gun attack in Tunisia on Sky news and the lifestory of the gunman this morning, how do we assess the motives of "refugees"? More than 12,000 plus young Tunisians headed to Iraq and Syria to fight with IS. Does that not show where their loyalties lie? According to news report, in 2008 Australia made it quite clear that no boat people refugees would be allowed into that country and, guess what - they stopped heading there. I think also that Australia were paying the human traffickers of boat people more money to take their human cargo elsewhere. All Tony Blair's fault for using his royal prerogative as PM (no need to ask Parliament for discussion and permission) and taking us into war with Saddam Hussein. Why were we not more vocal against this at the time? Why did we not listen to the moderate Arab states who said "be careful"?

Good post Papa. Make those of us who live in UK think about protection of our homeland and a way of life that we wish to live and what our ancestors struggled, fought and died for. Tolerance of other cultures, for one. But this is a two way street.

Boer women, children and men unfit for service were herded together in concentration camps by the British forces during Anglo-Boer War 2 (1899-1902). The first two of these camps (refugee camps) were established to house the families of burghers who had surrendered voluntarily, but very soon, with families of combatant burgers driven forcibly into camps established all over the country, the camps ceased to be refugee camps and became concentration camps. The abhorrent conditions in these camps caused the death of 4 177 women, 22 074 children under sixteen and 1 676 men, mainly those too old to be on commando, notwithstanding the efforts of an English lady, Emily Hobhouse, who tried her best to make the British authorities aware of the plight of especially the women and children in the camps

We may have been " beaten to" the idea of concentration camps by a Spanish general with the appealing nickname of "Butcher" but the British cannot be holier than thou about this iniquitous system. We knew what we were doing.
I hesitate to make the next point as all concentration camps in WW II were barbaric and an affront to humanity, but the term covers "work camps" and the even more infamous "extermination camps". Let's at least be accurate.

Lots of us were very vocal against the war in Iraq, CelticRose.
Unfortunately, as now, politicians tend not to take any notice of us once they are in power.

durhamjenI clearly remember sitting in front of the telly with my stomach muscles clenched, hoping against hope that the US and allies would not invade Iraq.

But they did, of course, and as every thinking person knew, chaos ensued. I read later that Bush had no idea about sunni/shia hatreds.

Like many others, I made my feeling known in letters to the editor etc, but as you said, the pollies knew best, or so they always thought.

Would it be crazy to suggest these refugees/economic migrants were offered the choice of returning to their own country or to train as soldiers?

When all the young men seem intent on leaving behind their country of birth because of warring factions, religious fanatics and the like, they are surely leaving behind their mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers, uncles, aunts, cousins, grandparents to suffer under the regime they are fleeing.

So who is going to fight back and turn their country around? If they were offered the chance to train and fight and decent wages and equipment and support and the offer of British Citizenship at the end of their conscription would that not at least serve several ends; gainful paid employment for these refugees, a trained fighting force to send against the likes of Isis, Al-Shebab, etc drawn from their own countrymen, the hope of their country being returned to peace and another ideology to replace the jihadists recruiting young disillusioned men?

It might also discourage the purely economic migrant.

just an idea to throw into the pot

soutra
definition of concentration camp
a place in which large numbers of people, especially political prisoners or members of persecuted minorities, are deliberately imprisoned in a relatively small area with inadequate facilities, sometimes to provide forced labour or to await mass execution. The term is most strongly associated with the several hundred camps established by the Nazis in Germany and occupied Europe 1933–45, among the most infamous being Dachau, Belsen, and Auschwitz.

lets at least be accurate as you say - if you read the last sentence above
no-one is suggesting 'concentration camps' in the Nazi sense is the same as 'holding areas for illegal immigrants'
I was not being 'holier than thou' as you so charmingly put it but striving for accuracy.
I did not know what we were doing in the Boer war - did you - or are you just transposing current righteous indignation about what happened in history to the here and now.

grannyonce some people just have to take things to the Nth degree of absurdity!

Anya Just as in Vietnam after the French were defeated there, special forces from the US went in to train and arm locals. As in Afghanistan with western coalition troops. But there were still fanatics amongst them who turned on the trainers, and then went on to train their tribal brothers with arms supplied by the western alliances. Now these trainers are in Iraq. Also, we use the Ghurkas. There was a time when they were refused settlement in this country after their loyal service to the monarchy and they had a dreadful pension scheme from the establishment. I signed petitions on their behalf. I would love to have a Ghurka family living next door to me - for many reasons. Prince Harry asked where the safest place to be was when he was in the Sand Pit. The reply was, "behind a Ghurka". So he had the Regiment in front of him. I seem to have wandered off topic - so sorry, another senior moment. How can we sift out those who are genuinely interested in peace and the opportunity of work, etc? We do not know the inbred tribal Arab culture apart from the cruelty they inflict upon each other. At least we know how a Ghurka family would live in this country after years of loyal service.

I find that rather convoluted and difficult to follow Celt but perhpas I'm suffering from over exposure to the sun!

What can we do with these young men?

Send them back?
Hold then in detention centres?
Allow them to try to find lowly paid jobs?
Put them on benefits?

We have thousands of fit young men, fleeing their countries for reasons we all sympathise with (hoping no jihadists are lurking amongst them) so how can we channel their youth, their energy, their time to tne best effect for everyone?

If you have an idea lets hear it

PS why do you think Arabs are inbred?