Christian Family face possible legal action

Must Christians be aware that, if they set up in business, they may have to go against religious principles that they hold dear? Is that fair on Christians.

I don't think this one is solveable.

I wish I could be that sure about it.

Of course they have not been treated unfairly. They were the ones who were quite happy to treat others unfairly and cannot understand why other people do not see this as well!!! They run a business and as such have to run it according to the law. The law says that they must not discriminate on grounds of (amongst other things) sexuality. I can understand that they do not agree with gay marriage. Nobody is forcing them to have one. Just obey the law. Just like everybody else. And so what if it was a "set up"? If they were obeying the law it would not have mattered. And why the problem with Bert and Ernie? Would it have been made if it just had the words on it?

mcem the ACTIVIST was not asking for a 'gay marriage/civil partnership' wedding cake - he wanted a cake with 'a slogan' that the bakers found unacceptable - a subtle differance
the bakers were probably set up to make a point - a bit underhand IMO.
why involve Bert and Ernie? - they are children's characters

Wonder if they'd take an order for a 'gay' cake if the message were more subtle?
Like my daughter's cake decorated with 2 tiny bride figures.

Yes. I agree with that.

But then again, it was others' sexuality being portrayed on the cake, not theirs. They are in the busines of selling cakes . It's against the law to discriminate.

[wrings hands with indecision but then remembers she's not the judge. (phew!)]

Not a lawyer but I believe the law say that that someone should not be denied a service on the grounds of sexuality. The baker did not refuse to make the cake for a gay couple but declined to decorate it with wording that was against his beliefs. He did not say he hated gay people or say that any one else should. I thought in this country we had the right to our own beliefs without fear of being punished .

Nelliemoser - I love the gay cake converted bread rolls to homosexuality picture. I see no reason why the men couldn't picture the sesame characters along with their chosen slogan. It's illegal to discriminate on the grounds of sexuality so for me, case proven. I have pondered the question raised by a number of posters about what would happen in a similar case if the bakers were asked to decorate a cake with abusive messages to an ex partner, or in praise of Isis as suggested earlier.

I suspect that as such messages would not be illegal but may be seen as threatening or in bad taste, the baker's would legally be able to refuse to take the work. Do we have any lawyer's who can clarify.

I don't think it's about the actual cake at all. It's about what religious freedom really means. And whether it is right for the law to intervene in cases like this.

On the whole, I think they would have been better advised to accept the order, and made the cake. But then I suppose they could have been accused of going against their religious principles.

Too hard for me!

Do companies offering such services not have any rights to refuse any particular commission?
What if they were asked to send a cake decorated with an abusive message to someones ex? It's just a thought.

(The gay cake jokes are rife on Face Book.)

How about this?
www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/gay-cake-converted-entire-tray-of-bread-rolls-to-homosexuality-2015052098454

It's up to them why they wanted it. They were customers and the bakery had a legal obligation to not discriminate. It's very very simple

This case wasn't about the bakers refusing to make a wedding cake for gay men.It was about the picture of Bert and Ernie and the slogan to be iced of
'Support Gay Marriage' in words next to them.Why would the men have wanted this on their cake anyway?Very strange.

Nobody was trying to force the bakers to enter into a same sex marriage. They were hardly going to endanger their immortal souls by doing a bit of icing that they didn't agree with.
In our bakers there is an advert for a meeting with a film - it is being held by the Baptist study group and the lesbian/gay/transgender student group.

And what message would that have sent?

Had I been one of the gay couple, I would not have made a fuss about this, I would merely have taken my business somewhere else, and said to the bakers "Your loss".

Yes I do now - oops

Don't know where italics came from

The phrase 'set up' is emotive and in this case perjorative and as was said ^ but so what if the bakers were being tested? There have been many examples of discrimination being uncovered by such 'tests'. For example, with landlords or employers discriminating against certain ethnic groups. Christians use discrimination legislation when they think they are being discriminated against, so talk about hypocrisy? As was also said ^ NI has a long and dishonourable tradition of discriminating agsinst not only gay people but alo RCs - not too keen in women either.

@thatbags - that's right. But they think they are being discriminated against because they aren't being allowed to discriminate against others...

I haven't read all this thread and I may be missing something but surely no one wants to go back to the days(not so long ago), when people were free to place notices saying ' no blacks, no irish etc.'
It is not Northern Ireland's Christians being picked on. Instead it is Northern Ireland, with its recent history of blatant discrimination which is out of step with modern Britain.

I agree with you Rubylady and have sympathy for the bakers. I think they were set up.

They think they've been treated unfairly. No, they've been treated equally.

I don't think it's unfair to test businesses on how they handle equality issues. Egalitarianism in business means you treat customers the same however much their beliefs conflict with yours. In short, people's beliefs about marriage and homosexuality are irrelevant. That's what the bakers in this story don't get. They think their rules have to apply to others. Well, they need to learn that equality rules apply to them and that their beliefs have no privileges to exempt them from the same law as everyone else has to abide by.

It would not surprise me if such a cake was requested as a challenge to the company concerned which I think is really unfair. (I can't quite work out why that seems wrong to me though.) It's too late at night to puzzle that one.
I wonder how that company would react to being asked to make a Diwali cake or an Eid cake. (If they have such things.)

I wonder if this bakery would have cooked a passover cake for David and Jonathans wedding.