Christian Family face possible legal action

How is freedom of expression, opinion protected? I ask as I have no idea of the laws surrounding freedom of speech. In this case does the Baker have no right to decline a cake order which goes against his beliefs?

Which of my posts did you have a problem with jingl?

I feel disillusioned if the whole thing was a set up.
Personally, I don't like discriminatiion in any form, even in cake!

It wasn't a wedding cake or a cake for a civil ceremony for a couple, sunseeker.

It was for a junket at the town hall, presumably funded out of council tax money which is in short supply for essential services such as helping the elderly, children's services, waste collection etc etc.

That was another point I was trying to make which was not the point of the story but which I picked up on and which I thought was worthy of note.

Is there only person in the bakery who writes on cakes? Do they all feel as strongly about it? Why not ask someone else to pop in and write the slogan if they didn't want to do it. I think it was a set up, too, but they could have side-stepped it, or even sabotaged it.

Support Grey Rights sorry - hearing's terrible!

Agus read the posts more carefully.

You can love your neighbour and refuse to carry out an action you believe is wrong.

So, does, love they neighbour only apply to other Christians?

They didn't refuse to serve them, from my reading of the news items. What they refused to do was put a specific slogan on a cake. I don't have a problem with gay marriage. I do have a problem with a legal requirement that people should pretend to support or even agree with positions they honestly can't. Several posters have said, why didn't the bakery say they were too busy? I imagine because they believe lying and misrepresentation are wrong. Why didn't the Mayor take his business to a gay-friendly bakery?

The Christian church does accept homosexuals, but not the practicing of homosexuality. They just haven't made up their minds whether it's a sin or not. If it is a sin, gay people can still hope for God's forgiveness. If it turns out not to be sin, then everything is hunky-dory.

I thought the Christian Church covers anyone who believes in, and tries to follow the teachings of, Jesus.

This is what's wrong with making laws to cover things which should be left to individuals' personal beliefs.

Obviously we need laws to protect gay people from being physically or verbally bashed up, but this baker isn't doing either of those things. He's just sticking to his personal beliefs. Shouldn't be covered by the law.

Why would anyone, running a bakery business, which I assumes serves the general public, refuse to serve someone because they don't approve of their beliefs?

The actions of this family could result in people boycotting their bakery. Quite a risk to take if you want run a profitable business.

No it doesn't. In the context in which you lazily used it, it means nothing of the sort.

The term Christian Church when used as a proper noun usually refers to the whole Christian religious tradition throughout history. When used in this way the term does not refer to a particular denomination or to a building.

There is no such thing as 'the Christian church'. There are many, many different traditions.

I've no idea if the law was broken, I expect it will be tested in the courts as the boarding house case was. But whatever the result, it will be certain that extreme positions are entrenched, a lot of sound and fury expended and money wasted, all over a cake. Northern Ireland could do without this.

This was obviously a set up, also I believe this is happening in Northern Ireland where gay marriage is not yet legal.

I don't think the bakery discriminated against the couple because of their sexuality, if they had asked them to bake a cake without the words "Support Gay Marriage" they would have done so. I think the bakery were specifically targeted in order to make a political point.

I have no problem with gay marriage but I think those who pull this sort of stunt do their cause no good at all.

It does sound as though the bakery could be relied on to get on its moral high horse doesn't it.

Nfk - none of us would expect Jewish butcher to sell pork, nor a Muslim butcher for that matter. The issue here is prejudice, discrimination and the bakery must have been aware they were in line for a lot of publicity, in just the same way that whoever asked them to bake the cake was.

'Judge not, that ye be not judged'

Even if the bakery owner didn't approve of gay marriage, surely the Christian thing would have been to bake the cake anyway?
But it is beside the point. He discriminated, which is illegal. Period.

Doesn't the Christian church accept homosexuality then?

I'm a Christian and I have no problem with gay marriage. But I agree that that this has all the hallmarks of a set up. There must be no shortage of bakers in the locality, why ask an overtly Evangelical Christian one to bake their cake.

I only know what I've read in a short newspaper piece but it seems that they have in the past refused to make a cake with the f word on it and other slogans which they feel are not compatible with their beliefs.

It's always a problem when two freedoms clash. On the one hand the freedom not to be involved in an action which goes against deeply held beliefs and, on the other, the freedom to request a service or goods from a service or goods provider.

I too feel that it might be a set-up, people with Christian beliefs seem to be an easy target these days, and I do feel that if someone feels strongly enough about something, and has the courage to say so, then that is their right in what is after all a free country.

Why didn't the bakery simply say they couldn't take the order as they had too much on rather than show a homophobic front?

Soft target.

I agree it was probably a set up. I feel sorry that the bakers have been put in this position. They do have the backing of the church but often that is not sufficient to save them from being fined.

I wonder how things would have panned out if they had gone to a bakery run by Muslims. It does seem to me that the Christian community are targeted more often that other faiths.