Christian Family face possible legal action

You can love your neighbour and refuse to carry out an action you believe is wrong.

Agus read the posts more carefully.

Is there only person in the bakery who writes on cakes? Do they all feel as strongly about it? Why not ask someone else to pop in and write the slogan if they didn't want to do it. I think it was a set up, too, but they could have side-stepped it, or even sabotaged it.

Support Grey Rights sorry - hearing's terrible!

It wasn't a wedding cake or a cake for a civil ceremony for a couple, sunseeker.

It was for a junket at the town hall, presumably funded out of council tax money which is in short supply for essential services such as helping the elderly, children's services, waste collection etc etc.

That was another point I was trying to make which was not the point of the story but which I picked up on and which I thought was worthy of note.

I feel disillusioned if the whole thing was a set up.
Personally, I don't like discriminatiion in any form, even in cake!

Which of my posts did you have a problem with jingl?

How is freedom of expression, opinion protected? I ask as I have no idea of the laws surrounding freedom of speech. In this case does the Baker have no right to decline a cake order which goes against his beliefs?

It's an interesting point of law, isn't it? In the case of the B&B the two men were clearly discriminated against.

In this case, in a province where gay marriage is not possible, and where it was a particular transaction that was declined, it may be different.

Imagine a scenario where a baker was asked to include a slogan saying 'Lower the age of consent to 14'. That would be campaigning for a change in the law which many would disagree with. Should the baker be allowed to refuse to make this?

Or perhaps 'Abortion on demand up to 30 weeks'. Against the law as it stands but some would support this position.

The question is, which takes priority: freedom to compel a service provider to participate (however tangentially) in a campaign, or the freedom to refuse.

As I said above, it will have to be tested in the courts if it ever gets that far.

MiceElf Interesting isn't it.
I'm not sure that providing the cake means the baker is participating in the campaign.
Would a printer who did flyers for a BNP rally be judged to be participating in a campaign, or just carrying his business?
What about manufacturers of football strips? Do they necessarily support the teams they provide a service for?

Carrying on his business

Yes exactly MiceElf I question whether the baker can politely decline, in this case, to not make a cake with a slogan he clearly does not believe in. He is not banning anyone from his shop but expressing his opinion?

If I worked in a Bakers and was asked to put on a cake 'Eat Halal Meat' I would refuse on the grounds of animal cruelty.

I thought we had a country of free speech, but it seems more and more than we are expected for conform/believe in things that are against our principles.

It's a sad old world.

Would a Kosher butcher be sued for not providing a pig for a hog roast?

Good point

It does seem like they were targetted for the response that was wanted - a way to get free publicity for the event?

I'm not religious and I'm not gay and have no strong feelings one way or the other about either group. I do think that Christians have a right to follow their beliefs though and shouldn't be forced to give them up in order to please another group of people. If they were the only cake maker within reasonable distance, I could understand it might be frustrating to be refused.

I thought we had a country of free speech, but it seems more and more than we are expected for conform/believe in things that are against our principles

I don't think there has been free speech for a long time - you are free to speak but only in a format that is approved of. In the main, that works quite well but there are occasions it does, in itself, become discriminatory.

janeainsworth I believe there have been printers who have refused orders from extreme political groups and that wasn't considered to be discrimination.

In the case of the B&B owners that was discrimination because the couple were refused a room because they were gay.

In the case of the baker, the refusal wasn't because the person who ordered the cake was gay, therefore it is not discrimination.

As I said before I have no problem with gay marriage (after all love is love and don't we need more of that in this world), but when a group pulls a stunt like this it does their cause no good at all.

Sunseeker As far as I know, it is not illegal to discriminate against the BNP
I didn't mean that a printer would be guilty of discrimination if they refused to print a leaflet for someone. I was hypothetically questioning whether, if they did print a leaflet for an extreme organisation, they would be considered to support that organisation.

I've just read this thread and I'm wondering the same thing, jane.

Is providing a decorated cake to a customer's requirements because you have set up in business as a baker of decorated cakes to customers' requirements "supporting" whatever the writing happens to say? I'd say no, it really isn't the baker's business what the icing says, only that the cake and its decoration are good quality.

Or, at least, worth the money paid for them.

I think most bought decorated cakes are revolting foodwise.

I'd have objected on the ground of putting Bert and Ernie on a supposedly gay cake. Since when do we use children's characters to promote any sexual orientation? Can we not leave children's characters to the innocence of children?

I agree rubylady.

Gay couples bring up children though, either by adoption or they are born by IVF, so what's wrong with using Bert and Ernie?
Unless Sesame Street had copyright.

Quoting Bags "I think most bought decorated cakes are revolting foodwise."

No!!! They are delicious!!!

I don't think the kids will notice (re Bert and Ernie)

Wasn't there something about the wording including 'QueerStreet', though?

I didn't know Bert and Ernie are/were Sesame St characters. I don't think kids would notice anyway. Would kids be invited to whatever event the cake was for?