I just dont know what to do!

Magmar - apparently son did speak to her and said that she shouldn't have behaved like she did and that we are older people and do not want to be involved in shouting and unpleasantness . However DIL plays the victim and says how tired she is etc etc and that we 'over exaggerated' (if only). Well, we know all of that, but there is no excuse for blatant uncalled for rudeness to people to have only ever been kind and inobtrusive. All son says now is 'carry on as normal and don't worry about it'
He also says her frostiness may be due to her being embarrassed about her behaviour. Not sure I go along with that. Most people would be ashamed.

louisamay it seems to me everyone, especially your son, is tiptoeing around DIL and afraid to get to the bottom of the problem. Is there no way you could ask your son to speak to her and ask what the problem is, as this is upsetting you as you have no idea what has caused this coolness and would like to rectify matters if possible. He is obviously aware that there is an atmosphere and, in my opinion, the ball is fairly and squarely in his court to sort it out before further damage is done.

Just to add. I am not expecting DIL's parents to 'side' with anyone. She is, after all, their daughter. But, from odd comments they have passed during the few years we have known them, I got the impression that she can be difficult. I remember her dad saying '..once she starts, she has quite a mouth on her,'. How can we sit round a table with them when they have been told that we 'bullied' her (God knows, it was quite the reverse!) and upset the baby?

It sounds like a lovely idea louisamay; it could also be the recipe for disaster. Mind you, DIL might think it's a way of getting her parents 'on side' given the way her mind seems to be working. Only do it if it's meant to be a family get together....I assume you don't intend to mention your DIL's behaviour to her parents?

I would leave the ripples to settle a bit before inviting the in-laws. A meal with all of you there would not be a pleasure at the moment, so has no virtue; and inviting them alone (unless they have done so for you in the past) might seem a bit odd. If both groups of parents are aware that relations are a bit fragile at present, it would be a frosty meal, with both sides trying not to speak about the "elephant in the room." Sounds grim to me and best avoided.

Hello again
My son asked us to babysit at the weekend so he and DIL could go for a meal. Naturally, we jumped at the chance and managed to see our GS for half an hour before he went to bed. DIL was very frosty with us. Son was clearly uncomfortable with her behaviour. On their return DIL managed a couple of words but didn't say goodbye when we left. It's hard to put this behaviour down to PND.
Something I would like some input on is this: Before the recent totally unexpected blow up where DIL accused us of bullying her and I was singled out for having 'aggressive body language' we had been planning to ask DIL's parents over for Sunday lunch. We have enjoyed their hospitality on occasions and now that baby is a bit more manageable, I thought of inviting son, DIL, baby and other GPs all together. It would appear odd if we only invited other GP's on their own. However, it concerns me that apparently DIL has told her parents (obviously giving her version of it) the whole sorry tale and probably used the same emotive language. I said to my son that we will now feel very uncomfortable with them. Son responded by saying that we shouldn't be concerned about what they think and to go ahead as if nothing has happened! That's easy to say, isn't it? I feel I need to have a chance to clear matters up with DIL's parents but without resorting to asking them to have a quiet chat behind her or my sons back I can't see what else I can do. The 'explosion' by DIL has been like a stone dropped in a pond ..the ripples have spread. What to do?
In the meantime we carry on - head down and only speak when spoken to.

* louisamay* you obviously love your son so do you really want to put him in an impossible situation where you record your DIL? From what you have said your son seems to love you and knows that something is wrong but I think he needs your support by you trying to keep calm and not make matters worse. Why don't you resort to an old fashioned method and write to them both. Explain that you want to help whenever you are needed and perhaps return the key. Tell them you love all 3 of them. Please don't force your son to choose he has a child of his own to care for now and he obviously appreciates that you are trying to help. I know you love your grandson and want to see him as much as possible but maybe your son needs your calm support most at the moment. I hope things get better for you all soon.

louisamay I am appalled that your DIL would think it perfectly OK to expect you to turn up at 7am in the morning to fit in with her schedule! This is totally unreasonable. I appreciate that you are bending over backwards to help her and wish to see your grandson as much as you are allowed - but this is ridiculous! Heart-breaking though it may seem, may I suggest you "back off", be busy with an appointment the next time you are summonsed, and wait for the next invitation, when you must ask whether you are to ring the bell, knock on the door or communicate by telepathy as to her instructions! We grandparents are so keen to please and be helpful, sometimes we lose sight of the fact that, more often than not, WE are doing THEM a favour and we get very little thanks for it if we are seen to be always available and compliant. Give yourself a break - you are not the quilty party. I would not be at all surprised if your DIL is suffering from PND or is just plain exhausted and overwhelmed by the arrival of this new infant. We've all been there! Courage, mon brave!

Tegan you have hit a very big nail in the head there , I too feel that children resent that they need our help , I keep my head down and concentrate on the Grandchildren , I have a key to DSs house which I never "remember " to take with me . I use the key to my DDs house .......... very different kettle of fish .
I hope Lousamay that you have come to a sort of truce ?

louisamay; it's a case of damned if you do and damned if you don't . It's no wonder you don't know what to do for the best.

Hi Tegan. The problem with the key issue,is that DIL insisted I use my key in the first place! I was never comfortable with that, but it became the norm. Whenever I forgot the key she would open the door 'foul', and ask me where my key was!! Also, she always knew when I was coming as she would invite me at a specific time. It appears that at some point I was supposed to stop using the key, but she didn't tell me when, and I am not psychic!

I'm sorry, I've come to this thread a bit late so apologise for the fact that I may not have read it properly. I agree, the recording must go but maybe you could write down the things that have happened [I often do that because I worry that I've misinterpreted something and then question my own memory]. Not with a view to doing anything with what you've written but sometimes reading back through something means something in it makes more sense. I would hate someone to have a key to my house. When I used to look after my grandson at my daughters house I would let myself in if she knew I was coming. However if I went out later in the day to do some shopping and arrived back after her husband had got in from work I would always ring the bell; it didn't feel right walking into my SIL's house. They have since moved house and an arguement I had with them [it happened in the blink of an eye and I still can't get my head round what happened or what I'd said] resulted in my SIL taking the keys off me. So there's something about inlaws and keys that causes a problem. Our children seem to want us to help with childcare but then resent the fact that they need it. It's all very complicated and sleepless nights/hormones/families etc etc make it even worse. Talking about it on here will help.

Definitely give the key back. She may decide she wants you to keep it in case of emergency - but it should be her decision. It's her home, after all.

1) give the key back with a smile and say you don't need it now DIL is at home and the DIY is done
2) back off and pretend nothing has happened - visit if encouraged, tap on door/ring or text from mobile when you are outside if DIL is worried about the baby waking up, don't outstay your welcome and turn a deaf ear to any overt or implied criticism.
Alternatively, record conversations "prove" you are in the "right" cause a mega bust up with your DS amd DIL and resign yourself to not seeing them or the baby for a long time. I know which I would do.

What do you plan to do with the recordings? Play them back to your son? I think he would presume that you had lost the plot and it would build huge resentment.
Personally I would return the key, try and invite them to your home or somewhere neutral and keep contact to a minimum. She obviously does not like you or yr hubby so it's best to keep things very low key.
As suggested before, focus on your own life, keep busy and try not to dwell on it all too much.
You could take a bunch of flowers round and say sorry that you seem to have upset her in some way and is there anyway that things could be resolved between you all.
I do think that things will not improve greatly though so just enjoy every precious moment with your grandson while you can.

I think your dil sounds frazzled and stressed and handles it by lashing out.
I'm not making excuses but possibly she is worn out through sleepless nights and simply trying to cope with everything.
Have you thought of inviting her to your house? She could come with the baby, you could have a nice lunch ready, maybe she might relax and not feel as if her house was being invaded, well, not invaded but you know what I mean. Then maybe you both take baby for a walk and she might chat to you if the pressure is off.
In time I'm sure with experience she will find it easier to cope, but it's important to keep a good relationship now, you definitely don't want to fall out with her. There are lots of gransnetters who are cut off from their grandchildren for whatever reason. Smile and be nice, it will pay off.
Good luck. Keep us posted. You will get through this tricky stage. Try not to let it upset you, she is just venting her frustrations.

How are you doing today louisemay? I totally understand why you've considered recording any future outbursts. I wish I could have recorded my d.i.l.'s rant the last time I ever saw her. My brother witnessed her awful behavior but of course, he's my brother so we would defend me wouldn't he.

I certainly wouldn't describe your temptation to record any future abusive confrontations as 'smacking of vindictiveness'. It's terrible when false accusations are being made and there is nothing you can do but continue to deny them and hope that those you love will believe you. Lies can destroy relationships. I know this all too well. We've lost our son and only gc because of our d.i.l.'s lying, controlling and manipulative behavior.

I would advise against it though. If you did feel it was prudent to play a recording to your son you could risk alienating him. I still think it best for you not go to their house unless your sons is there. From what you said, your son isn't happy with your suggestion but I think you should stick to it. Could you not tell him that you'd prefer not to visit unless he's there because you don't want any more upset or misunderstanding for every ones sake? Or perhaps you could do as HollyDaze suggests, and invite them to your home.

I totally agree with Faye. You do need to get out of the firing line and stop being your d.i.l.'s kicking post. Even if her behavior is due to PND, which I find hard to believe as from what your son's said she's OK with friends and her own family, and the stress of being a new mum, it is unacceptable especially in the light of all you've been doing to support them.

Hang on in there.andto brighten your day.

I'm still inclined to think that your DiL has some mental health issues.

However, as others have said, I think it would be advisable not to visit her when your son isn't there. If you have caller display and your DiL rings you, let her call go to voicemail but don't be tempted to record your conversations with her - it could get very messy. Whilst remaining friendly, I don't think you should go out of your way to prepare/deliver meals, etc. If your DiL needs this sort of practical help her parents will have to assist.

As you appear to be a very kindly and non-confrontational sort of person, perhaps your DiL (maybe not consciously) feels safer venting all her frustrations and upsets on you rather than on other people who she feels are less "safe" (e.g. you son (re her apparent jealousy of his ex), her parents (who she has said are dismissive of her feelings). If you son (who sounds very kind and caring) becomes alarmed about her behaviour, he will need to seriously discuss this with her and, if necessary, seek some advice.

As faye says, I think you need to distance yourselves a bit and take some time to relax and enjoy your retirement. I hope in time things settle down.

That's good advice, faye.

louisemay hugs from me too, you poor thing. Bending over backwards and jumping through hoops for your DIL is not working and seems to be making the situation worse. I think your son knows how difficult she is and he sounds like a thoroughly decent man who would never cut you off from seeing your GS.

My advice is don't go to your son's house when he isn't there, stop driving through busy traffic to take over meals etc. I can't help but think that some people take advantage of others generosity and kindness and trample all over them. You are 69 and this must be very stressful for you and your husband. Step back and get out of her firing line, continue on being the caring parents and grandparents but stop being your DIL's kicking post. Best wishes

Good advice mishap. Please don't do anything that'll blow the family apart.

Very true Mishap

I understand how louisamay is feeling, but sometimes it is important not to act on those feelings or you finish up in a worse mess than you started.

There does not seem to be anyone (least of all the son) who needs proof that this lass is acting in a difficult way.

Please bide your time and do not risk exacerbating what is already a very fragile situation.

I can understand how louisamay feels though - I've been on the receiving end of this treatment where there is one set of behaviour when it was just she and I and she would moderate it to just rude and ignorant when my son was around. It's very difficult when you can't prove that they are behaving very differently and I can understand that she feels that drastic times call for drastic measures; I hope she does rethink it though and just keeps her distance until things are sorted out.

You have to have in your mind how this recording idea might feel to DIL if she ever got wind of it - it certainly isn't going to make things better!

As someone else has rightly pointed out, who are you going to play it to?

I had a DD with very severe (and frankly life-threatening) ante-natal depression (as my poor SIL said: "Hide the knives") and some of the things she said and did whilst she was so ill were dreadful - the idea that anyone might have recorded this is unthinkable and makes my blood run cold.