To wish ATOS would leave me alone

Let's take all this out of the dirty world of politics and set up a time-limited independent investigation into the NHS to recommend action to secure its future. The likelyhood of that happening is nil because those in power are rich and have access to private medical care so couldn't really care less. We only have to look across the Atlantic at the health system in the USA to see what awaits us if the NHS fails. A superb health service and massive profits for the wealthy and to hell with everybody else. That must not happen in the UK.

And the population in the UK is increasing. Not sure if it still is.
And definitely more people are living longer.

It doesn't even need a conspiracy, vampirequeen Providing a National Health Service that is everything to everybody from cradle to grave costs vast amounts of input, in money and in time, skill, etc.

It is a sad fact of life that when something is free it is not valued, so instead of being the safety net that it was conceived as, it is expected by a lot of people that it will provide for every sniffle, every very minor injury, every sticking plaster, paracetamol tablet, laxative, all the bits and pieces that all housewives used to keep in their bathroom cabinet. People who would have dealt with this minor stuff themselves now visit the GP instead.

Everything is single-use and discarded. Use-by dates mean that much of what is thrown away is not even used first.

Add to that the improvements in medical care, the new diagnostic techniques and the expensive drugs and treatments that are available - all absolutely free at the moment of use - and both the costs of treatment and the amount of use that the system gets rise in an exponential curve.

Of course those responsible for funding it try to keep the costs down. Of course they try to stop "abuse" of the service. There is no bottomless well of cash. The whole situation gets more and more of a mammoth cats cradle all the time.

IMO there is a conspiracy in place to destabilise and eventually destroy the nhs. They hit from several angles.

NICE have to take the costs into account when they look at new meds. If they say yes and it's expensive a campaign is run complaining at the cost. If they say no then the campaign declares that ill people are being denied meds that will help them.

The hospitals are understaffed at the sharp end so they can run 'patients left in corridors' and 'long wait time' stories. The cleaning budget has been slashed so they can also say hospitals are dirty.

GPs are attacked so that they leave. Surgeries close or amalgamate and waiting times for appointments increase.

The conspiracy originators can take it slowly but by a drip effect they will convince the general public that the nhs doesn't work.

The first link is an interesting link for the likes of me who only has tenous links with staffing of the NHS.

How many % of trainees need to become GPS to keep the system going as it is?

And voters are voting UKIP to try and the main political parties.
I cant decide if that is sensible or out of the frying pan into the fire.

I have read that Governments want more home ownership, so that men in particular are tied into their mortgages, so are less likely to have the time and inclination to rock the staus quo of the higher ups in power.
Not sure how true that is, but it makes sense.

Increasingly we are all suffering from the lies, incompetence and greed of a super-rich elite of powerful politicians, officials and, increasingly, get-rich-quick spivs all dipping deep into the trough of public funds. I'm not sure how we can get out of this spiral of deceipt now that just about all political parties are tainted. First they need to be cleaned up of the dross that has attached itself to the vitals of the body politic. We must remember that it was people-power that got rid of the despised poll-tax, then the arch-fiend Thatcher, and more recently prevented Cameron, the current loon-in-charge, of getting the country involved in more military madness in Syria. So there is hope when there is the strong desire to make things better. We must gather up our strength and resources to do just that.

Jen no-one is denying that there are huge problems within general medical practice, many of which are due to the ineptitude of this and previous governments, and some of which are due to the unrealistic demands and expectations of patients, which in turn are fuelled by politicians and the media. For example, the recent suggestion that GPs should be named and shamed for failing to diagnose cancer, even though it is not the job of GPs to make a definitive diagnosis of cancer.

However, grave though it is to think that as many as 1 in 20 GPs are thinking of leaving the NHS in the next six months, that is very far from a mass resignation.

The NHS has a virtual monopoly of the employment of doctors in this country. While doctors at the beginning of their career may have the choice of emigration, and doctors near the end of their working lives may have the choice of retirement, those in the middle who have made a financial commitment to their practices and have homes and families to support actually have little choice of employer. What choice would a GP working in a deprived area in the inner city, or a deprived rural area, really have?

www.pulsetoday.co.uk/home/stop-practice-closures/one-in-20-gps-considering-closing-their-practice-by-next-spring/20008370.article

Sorry, can't put two links on the same post.

Nobody needs to suggest that doctors resign. They are leaving in huge numbers anyway, and the trainees do not want to become GPs.

www.pulsetoday.co.uk/your-practice/practice-topics/education/trainees-shun-partnerships-in-favour-of-locum-work-or-emigration/20008406.article

I have, FarNorth.

You're right, guys, mass resignations are unlikely and probably not too helpful.
Has anyone else signed the CAB petition about stopping the practice of leaving people with no benefit at all?

Elegran, another short, to the point and spot on post

As well as the doctors, tax officials, benefit assessors etc, every social worker, probation officer and approved mental health worker would have to go. They're making tough decisions every day and are regularly accused of propping up imperfect systems.
Wanders off, singing And did those feet…...

If all the doctors working for the NHS resigned in protest, along with all those attempting to administer the benefits and taxcation systems fairly, it might hasten The Revolution but an awful lot of citizens wouldn't make it through to the New Jerusalem.

durhamjen. Are you suggesting that people like Galen who are used as part of the system, should downtools?

And do you really want the system to collapse completely? Reforming it is one thing. Dumping it, and all those dependent on it, with all its faults, is like pulling down your imperfect house in midwinter before you start looking for another.

Jen I know the suggestion has been made for GPs to resign their contracts.
I just don't think it will happen.
That still leaves all the hospital doctors 'propping up the system' as you put it.

The forms are a nightmare to complete. I had help with my first form and kept a record of it. I use the same answers to most of the questions and add to the parts that show my condition has deteriorated. If they turn me down at least I can ask why when I showed the same evidence in previous accepted claims I no longer qualify.

You have to repeat yourself over and over. I'm sure it's deliberate to try to catch you out.

My mh condition has many hidden aspects and these are virtually impossible to prove. For example, I have to be monitored when I first fall asleep as, for some unknown reason, in the early stages of sleep I often hit myself in the face. Not a light slap but a full blown punch, usually aimed at my eyes or nose. I don't know I'm doing it until I wake up in pain as the punch lands. DH says there are warning movements that he has come to recognise and he does his best to prevent the blows hitting their target. How do I prove that to a DWP clerk.. ask them to send someone to sleep with me ?

I won't be the only one with hidden symptoms but not everyone will be able to complete the forms.

It is degrading being made to feel like a scrounger and having to convince faceless officials that you really are entitled to the benefit.

That can be hard to understand, tho, if you haven't gone through it.

Applying for a benefit is degrading because if you have always worked and supported your family it feels wrong if you suddenly can't do it and have to ask for money. Obviously people are entitled to benefits, but you can't help feeling you should be able to manage by yourself. If you start piling on interviews and appeals it just makes it worse.

Life is much easier now DH and I are both retired. At least there is no argument now about whether he is fit for work. His DLA is supposed to be changing to PIP next year so I don't know what will happen then -but at a pinch we could get by without it.

Jen. I am confused, how can applying for a benefit be, in itself, degrading. How do you get it if you do not apply for it?

Here is a link to the Citizens' Advice Bureau petition, mentioned by durhamjen : www.change.org/p/sign-this-petition-calling-for-govt-to-stop-cutting-benefits-during-fitforwork-appeals

If I went into the street and kicked a disabled person I would be in court for assault, yet this is far worse behaviour from our government.

"ESA claimants are being told that during MR they need to apply for JSA, as they have been found fit for work. To allow this Jobcentre Plus staff are meant to take account of a claimant’s condition and reduce their conditionality accordingly. We are finding that this is not working in practice. For example
Jack1 was helped by Woking CAB when he was stuck between his Jobcentre who told him he was not fit for work and therefore ineligible to claim JSA because he had a note from his doctor and the DWP assessor who said he was no longer able to claim ESA as he had been found fit for work.
A woman in Watford with depression and severe mental health issues was only given 6 points and refused ESA. She asked for her decision to be reconsidered and was sent to her local Jobcentre to apply for JSA while she waited. However her Jobcentre advisor told her that she would find it too difficult to attend interviews because of her mental health and therefore could not qualify for JSA. This left her caught between two parts of DWP with no money at all; one told her she was too fit for ESA and another telling her she was too unwell for JSA
Martin was reassessed for ESA and was given 0 points. His case went for reconsideration, and during this time, his benefits were stopped, including Housing Benefit and Council Tax Benefit. Martin was initially told the reconsidered decision would take 14 days but it took 5 weeks. During this period he tried to claim JSA but was told he couldn’t do so because he was unfit for work."

This is more from the CAB report to the DWP.
This is what happens to people in reality, either before or after you see them, Galen.
I think we agree with each other about what is wrong. Most cases take at least a month without benefits and claimants now have to beg or borrow from friends. People having to have food parcels from the Red Cross to survive cannot be right.
It's just plain evil to make those who cannot work be made to feel worse than they are. I know about this because my husband had to be reassessed every year for ten years. Then sense was seen and he was not made to revisit his accident for the next five years. The system changed again just before he got his pension. It seems to be much worse now than in 2010.

It also takes a fair bit of stamina to consider all the ways that your condition affects you and the details of how far from a normal life you currently have.
Just thinking all of that through and having to repeat it over and over on the forms (as you say, Mishap, that is necessary) can be quite depressing for the claimant, as I know from helping a relative with claims and appeals, which were eventually won.