A and E admissions

I have just put this on another thread but it is worth mentioning on this one.

I appreciate people do not have the time to watch Parliament live but you can get it on 'Catch Up'. Not sure if you can still get the following but try if you have a genuine interest in seeing and hearing from the horses mouth facts, figures, debate by both Jeremy Hunt and Andy Burnham.

I am referring to an 'Urgent Question on A&E' December 18th 2014. Andy Burnham was given permission to bring the Urgent Question but sadly for Andy Burnham only 10 Labour MP's attended to ask questions of Jeremy Hunt.

It was an own goal for Andy Burnham as he had to sit and listen to the numbers for extra nurses and doctors, his stewardship of the NHS which resulted in the Francis Report etc. Even the 10 Labour MP'S that were initially interested dwindled.

I think Speaker Bercow slumped in his chair as much as Burnham at one stage wondering if it was the wisest move to try and put Jeremy Hunt on the spot as it backfired stupendously on the Shadow Health Minister.

This is Dr Louise Irvine talking on radio 5 about trolley waits and the reasons for them. This is not people who are drunk.

https://audioboom.com/boos/2749476-dr-louise-irvine-on-a-e-waiting-times-and-trolley-waits-bbc-five-live

Major contributory factor to overcrowding in A&E is also the "bed blocking" further down the line - patients not able to be sent home because of inadequate support or care or care homes unwilling to take the elderly sick so beds cannot be found for patients once they have been treated initially in A&E. Interesting observation in today's Telegraph that in the spanking new state of the art QE II Hospital in Birmingham there were literally no beds available on the night in question (last week I think) and NOT a peak night/time of the year. Patients being kept in after admission to A&E were in the vast majority the elderly or chronic sick - younger "casualties" generally patched and despatched. The system is simply not fit for purpose.

Jen I was not referring to your post.

Useful link in there about getting repeat medicines from a pharmacist. I didnt realise that that was doable.

Hi Jess! Was only thinking about you today [not meaning I was 'only' thinking about you ifyougetmydrift].....

This is an interesting blog post by a doctor on the large number of people who turn up at A and E without good reason.
I must say that after reading it I was quite taken with the idea of a burly triage nurse at the door, saying "NO we don't do that here, it's for serious emergencies, please go to your GP/pharmacy/own bed".
www.resilientgp.org/if-you-fell-in-a-puddle-you-wouldnt-call-the-coastguard/

I do not understand. Nowhere in that article does it blame pubs and clubs.

Thanks for flagging up another source of blame, the pubs and clubs. They of course are the prime culprits, rather than a 'few idiotic teenagers'

In actual fact they are far from 'a few' and many of them are not teenagers either.

Over 3000 operations were cancelled in the first two weeks of this month, not all to do with drunkenness.

www.theguardian.com/society/2014/dec/28/nhs-cancels-3000-operations-in-two-december-weeks

Most to do with the fact that this government has robbed the NHS of the money to pay for doctors, nurses and beds over the last four and a half years.

The excessive amount of A&E cases admitted over the last few days in my area has resulted in a severe shortage of beds for people waiting for surgical procedures, myself included. I was booked for surgery today in a hospital in Bath but received a call yesterday afternoon cancelling my appointment. This is the second time it has happened, it was also cancelled last month. I have given up hope for the moment and am going to Spain for a few weeks, maybe there will be a chance next month!!

Surely it would be easy to enter a bar and observe whether inebriated persons were being sold alcohol.

Huge numbers of crimes are related to alcohol so I think it would be worth the police taking notice of this.

Sounds as though it would be very hard to prove which licensee sold what and how much to who(m) and whether the drunken person had actually presented as 'inebriated' at the point of sale...etc., etc.

The Police force is stretched enough as it is. No wonder enthusiasm for such a drive is so lacklustre.

But how would we know absent?
A lot of policemen are members of the Masons and blind eyes are certainly being turned towards those selling drink to the already-inebriated.

FarNorth I suspect targets and filling in endless forms has more to do with it than "old boy network" corruption.

We no longer go into our town centre at night at weekends because of the behaviour of those around us. I have been drunk in my time but usually for some sort of occasion, (new year, wedding, birthday) but today the whole idea seems to be to get as drunk as possible as quickly as possible and then repeat next weekend. Where is the enjoyment in that ?

You're right there!

A cynical notion - I wonder if the Masonic Lodge has anything to do with it not being addressed.

Absolutely Absent if a few clubs/bars lost their licence to sell alcohol that would bring the industry up short. The local police commissioners, police forces and local authority licensing committees could address this if they chose to.

Drunken behaviour – rowdiness, brawling, peeing in public, generally being a nuisance, etc. – is a public order issue not a health issue. There are laws in place – they simply need to be applied. It is illegal for a pub or bar to sell alcoholic drinks to someone who is already inebriated and the license can be withdrawn. If that law were applied a bit more frequently, some of these vertical drinking warehouses would be closed overnight and some of the problem would cease to exist. Tackle the people who make a lot of money out of irresponsible drinking rather than picking off a few idiotic teenagers at a time.

I suppose when the drunks are on NHS property then the police won't take any notice unless they are called in by the NHS.

I do remember the police in the Bridewell in Liverpool had some fearful system whereby drunks could be kept from inhaling their own vomit.i suspect it would have made Guantanamo bay look like a cushy number. It didn't seem to stop the drinking although now it's a national disease. Fines for drunk and disorderly should be astronomical ,to reflect the cost of policing and hospital treatment. skiers surely have insurance when they ski abroad and in my own opinion walkers who cause others to endanger their own lives for them to be rescued should also be fined if they haven't got insurance. There are so many tales of crass stupidity by mountain walkers at this time of the year.

Isn't "causing a public nuisance" an arrestable offence. Why can't they be charged with that?

I had the misfortune to visit A & E a few years ago on a Sunday night just before Christmas. The floor had pools of vomit that cleaners were trying to mop up. The injured revellers had brought their drunken mates along for the ride and one tipped the bucket of water and disinfectant all over another, splashing nearby staff. They all fell about shouting and laughing. The language was foul and the smell appalling.

The elderly relative I was accompanying, and who was eventually admitted only to die two days later, was very frightened, especially when they barged into his wheelchair.

Yes, live and let live and let's blame the government, the police, the NHS, everybody except the drunken louts themselves.

How can that be? A binge is a behavior engaged in excessively over a short period of time, according to the dictionary. One glass of wine a day, even a large one, isn't even more than the recommended daily allowance for a woman.

It would be hard to define whether someone's injuries, for example, had been caused because they were drunk, or were the fault of someone else and would have happened in any case. How are A&E staff supposed to decide who to charge? It would just necessitate even more paperwork and overload the NHS and Police even more.

A binger is someone who drinks a glass of wine a day, according to new guidelines, goldengirl. That could be some of us.