New here - wanting advice please

I endorse what HildaW has said, and share her feeling that deep down you feel a desire to be in control of this - a sense that you know what is best.

This young family are a bit under siege - they have her mum and family breathing down their necks; your son is acting as go-between with you; and the idea of even thinking that your son might spend a night with you on own is in the air. Unthinkable.

They know you are there and will do anything they want, but just at this moment there is nothing they want from you - that will change I promise you.

In all kindness, I have to say that your son and his partner are in the right, and you are wrong. You are thinking too much about your needs and too little about theirs - I know you think that your ideas will help them, but that is not how they see it at the moment and you have to take that on board with no resentment.

Show your joy when you do see the babe; express your willingness to help in any way that THEY ask and take it gently. There is a lot to lose and a lot to gain and you have to get this right.

I speak as grandma of 11 years standing of 6 and a half GC. It has been a joy and worked well, but only because I put their needs first and bit my tongue like you cannot imagine at times!

You can do it!

She is obviously one of these women who puts herself as 'senior parent' from day 1. It is very odd that you have 2 people with no experience of parenthood and one then becomes the expert to tell the other what to do!
I never understand it myself as my husband was equal from the word go.
I imagine from your posts that your son gets his instructions, is probably not allowed to bath 'unsupervised' ( or even supervised) has to be told which clothes to dress in etc.
It is very common and your son obviously is happy to go along with it.
The novelty will wear off when he can walk, talk, have a will of his own and she discovers that she is doing more than her fair share- or it will wear off if they have a second one and she wants any help she can get.
You will have to bide your time and look to the long term. Be laid back and stop the little niggles to them. Just be the fun granny that he will enjoy time with. Children want time more than anything else, someone to read endless stories, play games, go in muddy walks etc.
They have only had him a few weeks. He is too young to have preferences. He will get his own in time. We are not our mothers- family members that my mother had the best relationships with are not necessarily the ones that I had the best relationships with- the same with all children.
Certainly putting pressure on doesn't bode well for any relationships.
They live with the other grandmother, she is a new mother, it is his first Christmas, - these are all things that will change. I know a little 3yr old, we are not related, I don't see him very often but he loves me! (So he says!) We just get on well - this is nothing to do with parents.
However difficult - go with the flow is my advice.

Good luck with this situation Nik.A friend of mine in a similar position stopped asking to see the baby, and lo and behold, after a short while the young couple were suddenly eager for her help and input ! I think it was because it seemed that she was taking a back seat and not wanting to hold the baby etc or to push into their lives. She was a paternal grandmother too, but the son just went along with whatever his wife said [for a quiet life.] By the time the baby was about 5/6 months the situation seemed to have resolved itself.

Oh dear.....some folks do seem to have short memories. Leticia can you remember being a first time Mum and worrying yourself sick about what to do for the best and yet feeling so much love and almost Tigress like protective? Hells teeth if anyone had tried to come between me and my baby I would have gone off at the deep end. This poor young woman who is living with her Mum (with all those connotations) has to cope with new motherhood and a partner who is being permanently nagged by his Mum to basically come home for a rest whilst you do that bring the new baby!

Please Please there is no 'senior parent' there are just two young people getting to grips with a very fraught situation AND we are only hearing one side of a very complex story!

Thanks again all. Just to set the record straight, I did not invite my son to spend the night here alone, I invited them all, as a family, the option and just told them the room is always there if they need it. My stepdaughter is eager to move into that room as its bigger than hers, but I told my son and his partner that we would hold off on redecorating it etc until they've moved into their own place. As they're so cramped physically where they are at the moment I wanted them to know they were welcome to stay over if they wanted to.

We will get there, I'm sure.

OF course you will !!

No, you are still doing it NikNox, you are trying to convince the young couple to move into your spare room. Try not to organise their lives you will get hurt and alienate the young ones.

* Leticia can you remember being a first time Mum and worrying yourself sick about what to do for the best and yet feeling so much love and almost Tigress like protective? Hells teeth if anyone had tried to come between me and my baby I would have gone off at the deep end.*

I remember the being worried and the love and the protective bit but I did let my husband be equal parent and I did not give him instructions. We were both clueless together! I was equally happy with close family members helping-my mother and mother-in-law had all the experience where we had none. Both had very successfully brought up several children so I think they could be trusted to manage their much loved grandchild!

Everyone is at their worst with a new baby! It all wears off in time. Generally when the child gets a say and becomes a personality rather than 'the baby'.

You have to remember NikNox that the baby has your genes in the mix and may well turn out to be very like you!

Harrigan I am not trying to convince them to move into our house! Truthfully I wouldn't want them on a permanent basis. That probably sounds a bit harsh, but they need to find their own way in the world. I've just observed and listened to little comments they've made about the lack of space and lack of privacy and have simply offered a bed for the night somewhere different, that's all - I'm pretty sure most people would in this situation! I know my mum wouldn't hesitate or mind if we wanted to stay at hers for the night, so there's no difference. I know that my sons partner falls out with her mum from time to time, and the other day I observed maternal nan being very clearly annoyed that she had worked a 12 hour shift and came home to find no housework had been done, at all. I'd been there an hour and all my DIL did was sit on her phone whilst I played with the baby. My DILs mother was clearly not impressed and I actually felt guilty that I'd been there an hour cooing over little man. I know she wouldn't have expected me to do their housework, but I felt guilty all the same (think that's a woman thing!).

Leticia I was the same with my boys dad. He cared for our sons equally with me and we involved both sets of grandparents from the start. He would take them to his mums every Wednesday for tea, right from when they were tiny. He loved it, she loved it, they loved it and I wallowed in a couple of hours of peace and quiet . I don't expect them to follow in our footsteps, of course, but both my children are very close to their grandmothers and it's quite wonderful.

Hmmmm - I think some of us here are reading the message between the lines and can see that you need to stand back.

Your life, your choice - I wish you good luck NikNok.

You will just have to stop worrying about it and sizing it all up and comparing. It is early days-hopefully you are there for at least the next 18yrs! Things will change. In her turn DIL is going to be the paternal grandmother.

The fact is everyone will have their own interpretation of a situation, and I have decided to stand back. I was just clarifying that I have not and would not try to convince them to move in, but was simply offering a different bed for the night if they wished. I cannot see anything wrong with that, but if others do then do be it.

I do hope I'm around for the next 18 years too, and one day hope to be a great-grandmother. I also hope the Winnie The Pooh toy I've yet to make stands the test of time and becomes an heirloom ...

Hello again all,

Well it's been quite a while since I last posted, mainly because I wanted to just try and get on with things as they were, in the hope that they would improve. I'm sad to report that they haven't, well, not entirely.

As I outlined before, my son's partner was, and still is, reluctant to allow me time with my grandson. She does now allow my son to bring him to our home once a week, for an hour. I am not allowed to ask for any extra time with him, and if I ask to pop in on my way home from work (they live literally a 5 minute walk up the road) the answer is always no. She told me to stop asking to see him, and said that if I did stop asking to see him they would pop down to see me more. I haven't asked to see him outside of my allocated time for 2 months now, and there haven't been any extra visits whatsoever. When my son visits with him, he is under strict instructions to be an hour, and an hour only. During the winter months visits to my home were stopped altogether because she said that my grandson had caught a cold from going from the car into my house. I did try to explain that colds are caught from viruses, but she wouldn't have it. Strangely, they could visit other friends and family, but it seems it was just the short walk from the car to my house that gave him a cold.

This will probably sound a little disjointed, but so much has happened that I just cannot fathom, and the only conclusion I can draw from it all is that she is a control freak!! Seriously!! They continue to reside with her mother, who gets to take my grandson out, has him on her own and babysits. I asked once if I could take baby out in his pram for 10 minutes and was told no, so I haven't asked again - in fact I'm scared to, mainly because it hurts my feelings so much I don't want to be told no.

But, things are far from sweet where they are living, especially for my son, who is getting more and more low every time I see him. He hates the way his partner treats me, but she won't listen to him. She tells him that she makes the decisions and no-one will walk over them. They are cramped into a tiny house with her mother, her mother's partner, her brother and her mother's partner's two teenage children every weekend. He desperately wants to move, but she wants to wait for social housing (which they won't get because the rules have just changed and they are in the lowest banding). He is also getting more and more irritated by her mother's interference. He would like baby to go to bed at a certain time (he's 7 months now) and be left to settle for a short period. However, if baby so much as whimpers, his partner's mother goes and gets him and brings him downstairs. His partner doesn't say anything to her mother, but he feels this is not good and is not teaching his son about bedtime - unfortunately he cannot say anything. His partner's mother is also a bit OCD with housework, and will often be hoovering and cleaning the house late into the night - last week she was hoovering under baby's cot at 10pm with baby sleeping in it. My son was furious, but couldn't say anything. He told me he's getting depressed, and I have to say I have never seen him so low. He said that his partner's mother and partner irritate him so much he can't be in the same room as them, but because the house is so tiny there is no escape. Twice in the last month he's gone out with his friends and hasn't gone home - okay I appreciate that's not the right way to go about it, but it's a symptom of how he's feeling. He feels trapped, and has said that if it wasn't for baby he probably wouldn't be with his partner at all. He has told her how he feels about their living arrangements, about how she treats me and doesn't allow me much access to his son but she just won't have it. I can't see them lasting much longer to be honest, which of course would be a huge shame.

She behaves the same way with other members of our side of the family. My mum practically has to beg to go and see her great-grandson, if we invite them to any family gatherings my son will come but she always says no. My son's dad (who I'm not with) also has the same issue with his side of the family - family gatherings are attended by our son, but not her and our grandson. It's a completely different story with her side of the family however - there are regular family gatherings with great-grandparents, aunts and uncles, cousins etc., and my son is expected to attend all of them.

I had hoped, in the beginning, that a lot of this was either my imagination or me being paranoid. However, as time has gone on, if anything it's got worse, and I'm not sure what we can do. She has always said she treats everyone "equally", but it's absolutely clear and abundant that she doesn't. I'm pretty sure that my son should have more say in how his son is raised, in making decisions about whether I can have him on my own for a hour here and there (something he has always said he's more than happy with), and with regards to her mother interfering with baby's bedtime routine etc., but he is certainly a lone voice in that household.

Any ideas gratefully received!

I think it is in your long term interests to 'back off'. Don't approach them, have any opinions about anything to do with them and keep yourself busy doing other things.

This may not be what you want to hear but I think it would be for the best. I am a mother, stepmother, grandmother, stepgrandmother etc. etc. and it is not easy. Keep quiet, smile sweetly when you are needed (and you will be) and never venture an opinion unless asked.

Indeed Liz.

I agree with Liz. And you must be careful not to fuel your son's discontent with his current living arrangements [even though I do agree that it sounds very difficult for him at the moment]. As for seeing your grandchild, I have seen mine for probably the sum total of four hours over the past ten weeks and have realised that I just have to live with that; so I do understand how you feel. Most of these problems seem to arise from an imbalance; I totally understand that my children are now adults and parents and have their own lives to lead and want to be with their peer group; I have no problem with that as I was the same...it's when other members of the family spend so much more time with them that it hurts me. Your son and his partner do need their own place, though and that seems to be the major issue.

Thank you Liz, I agree and I have backed off for quite some time now. It's how my son is feeling that worries me most. He is such a popular lad, always has been because of his bright, vibrant, jokey personality. Seeing him so low is just awful, and as his mother I am worried about him. I have spoken to his dad, and he's worried too. I would hate to think that they could possibly separate due to her controlling nature, her mother's interference, and her reluctance to let my son's side of the family have much to do with baby. When he's visited me with baby he has "nipped out" to visit a friend briefly, or go to the shop for something, or just sit in his car outside fiddling with his sound system, but he's said "please don't put anything on Facebook mum cos if she finds out I've left him with you to nip out you won't see him again". I feel like a naughty schoolchild if I am left alone, unsupervised, with my grandson for 10 minutes, like I'm being secretive - it's certainly not a thrill, more like being held to ransom by a 20 year old! My feelings are my feelings, and for the most part I can deal with them. I do as I am told, and I don't ask to see him any more. She tries to move the goal posts occasionally, and I just fit in with what she wants without fuss or comment. I do appreciate that when he's older and has his own voice he will (hopefully) ask to see me, and I will be needed to help out. But my son's depression is a concern to me, of course, and I'm not sure how to help him other than to offer my support and his old room as an escape if he needs it.

Aww thanks Tegan, I'm sorry you're experiencing the same thing. They do need their own place, for sure, but she just won't have it that they won't quality for social housing. My son works full time and could afford to rent privately. We worked it out a couple of weeks ago, and with tax credits they'd be okay and could afford to rent a two bedroomed house. There wouldn't be much money for luxuries however, and he said that if she can't have her new clothes and stuff then she won't move out into private rent. I pointed out that if she wants new things then she may have to consider working part time too, to help the family funds, but he feels this would go down like a lead balloon! His father has told him to rent a place, move out and give her the option of joining him, which may work, or it may not. We, as his parents, have told him we would be more than willing to help out financially if needed - we helped his older brother for 4 years after he left home so would do the same for our youngest. To be honest, I don't think she wants to move out. She doesn't do anything, no housework etc., (which surely must drive her mum mad!) and often doesn't even get dressed all day, so she's got it easy. My son does say that he thinks she's lazy, especially after he's worked a 10 hour day and then gets home to be told she wants him to take her to the supermarket, or wherever - he feels she could do that in the daytime. It's a very difficult situation.

Tegan, just to add that I too understand the need for them to see their friends, own peer groups etc. They're both young and they need their friends. I don't fuel my son's discontent in any way, shape or form, but I am there to listen to him and his father and I are actually the only people he can talk to about this properly. He did tell me that he's jealous of his single friends, which I can understand, and said that if they had their own place he could invite his mates round for an X-box night or whatever - as he's living under the same roof as his partner's mother he can't do this, plus there's not the space anyway. It's like he doesn't have a life any more, hence why he's feeling trapped. On the two occasions recently when he stayed out all night, I had texts from his partner at 7am asking me if I'd seen him, which I hadn't, and then great long replies about how now he's a father he should be more responsible and shouldn't stay out all night. I have to say I was tempted to reply "well maybe if he was happy he wouldn't feel the need to", but I didn't. They have to make their own mistakes in their relationship, and learn from them. But, if a relationship is all one-sided, with one person making all the decisions and not allowing the other one a say, then it's not going to work. I know what his partner is like with me, so I probably don't know the half of what he has to put up with!

It sounds like a very difficult situation .

"And you must be careful not to fuel your son's discontent with his current living arrangements" - wise words from Tegan - doing so would worsen your situation and help no-one.

From some of your posts it seems that you are discussing with him other housing and financial options for him and his family - I really truly think you should not do that. It is for him and his partner to have those discussions as a couple; and then come to you if they need help or advice.

If he leaves her and wants to have those discussions with you, then that is totally different.

For better or (as in this case probably) worse, they are a couple and a family unit and have to make their own decisions. If she thinks you are discussing these options with your son, she is even less likely to agree to greater involvement for you with your GS.

On the one or two occasions when my children have tried to engage me in discussions that should properly be had with their partners, I have told them so - and packed them off to work things out as a couple.

Yes, Mishap.

I speak as a granny with no experience of what you are going through. I am lucky. my own DD and her partner are emotionally intelligent and, living equidistant from both sets of GPs, we all get to see the GDs more or less equally.
I feel that NikNox has been responded to rather harshly in some replies though. I feel her concerns are more than justified and her offer of occasional temporary accommodation, sadly rebuffed, was a well meant gesture. The young mother is clearly a control freak, there are too many people living together, and the whole situation must be intolerable for all of them. I don't think NikNOx needs to envy the MIL, who is probably finding the overcrowding and the resultant " need" to hoover at night frustrating and exhausting. As soon as the housing situation is resolved, and hopefully it can be, tensions should lessen. But I do have a lot of sympathy for NikNox, who clearly HAS been biting her tongue, and I don't think is trying to control the young family as someone suggested, Very cruel of the DIL to use blackmail. Hopefully the son can grow a pair and assert himself a bit more.
Chin up NikNox, there are much worse scenarios and as many have rightly said, he's still a baby and dynamics will change. You dont live on the other side of the world, and you do still get to see him. Hugs!!