Save ....with what

petra Yes, that's a really good point, especially as I think most, if not all, retirement properties can't be rented out in order to cover expenses. On top of that, I've heard that they are very difficult to sell so that liability for charges could go on quite some time.

One other thing to think about if/when buying a retirement home.
The people you leave your property to are responsible for the service charges until the property is sold.

That's quite a disturbing case jane.

However, it doesn't alarm me as much as talk of voluntary euthanasia becoming the norm i.e. just another option to be considered, along with choice of care home, care at home, bed-blockers, over-burdened public services, etc.

Grandma2213 suggesting voluntary euthanasia as an 'answer' to the ageing population and a lack of savings shows just how far we come to seeing older people as a problem.

The trouble is Grandma2213 is that if voluntary euthanasia becomes more common, there will be a lot more cases like this one.
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/belgium/11382843/Son-challenges-Belgian-law-after-mothers-mercy-killing.html

I did know I would open a can of worms with this suggestion!

Riverwalk and Soontobe, I am 68 years old and retired at 66 when I realised that I was ill more than I was well due to stress and that my family history suggested I had about 15 years left. Even if I get a few extra years it's not that far off. Meanwhile I want to live life to the full and leave happy memories for my grandchildren.

I had saved, despite being a single parent of three children with no support so I am financially independent for the foreseeable future. Sorry if it looked like I meant 'don't bother saving'. Since I retired I have become really fit and much more active, looking after 5 young grandchildren (3 to 7 years) a minimum of 4 days a week.

I have had a hip replacement (before I retired) and eye surgery recently which rendered me totally dependent on my children and I HATED, HATED, HATED it! However this was temporary and made me consider what I would do if it wasn't, hence my discussions with friends who have had to support elderly, sick relatives, and my original post. Yes I would choose euthanasia if physically I was suffering more than I could bear and mentally I would hope I could sign some sort of document like a living will while I could. Why would I want to end a full and active life in such a way?

Soontobe, sorry my post came at such a bad time for you. Of course this was unintentional.

Eloethan I have a good relationship with my children and I know they would willingly look after me but it is me that would feel a burden and suffer accordingly so it would be personal. Elegran and Tegan that is a big one. Can we trust ourselves not to abuse voluntary euthanasia? I have thought a lot about that and don't know the answer. I only say what I personally would want in my circumstances and I stick by it.

Neither of my parents nor DH's MIL went into a care home (his DF died very young).

We seemed to manage and although I think MIL would have been better off in a care home as we did not live near she adamantly refused to go into one.

There is a 'retirement village' near us where you can buy a flat, then move into the nursing home if you need care.
Some of these 'nursing homes' and 'retirement villages' are owned by multi-millionaires who are only interested in the proceeds.

I hope my DC and/or DH do not put me into one; I would rather have a holiday in Switzerland.

Galen

What does the service charge cover? I think it is about the standard rate for retirement properties. A 15% fee on selling is a lot - especially given that these properties have a niche market and a seller would probably be unlikely to get the price they are expecting.

The meal charge is very reasonable - much cheaper than Meals on Wheels.

Without seeing what the apartments look like and the type of development, it's difficult to judge.

I looked at some small 1 bedroom retirement flats for my mum in Wanstead (an expensive area of East London) a few years ago. They were priced considerably less than non-retirement flats - around £130,000 then but now around £170-190,000. I suppose 2 bedroomed would be around £230-250,000. She didn't like the look of them much and decided against it.

I think if you like the look of them, have very thoroughly investigated the various charges, conditions of residence, etc., can afford it and feel it meets your needs - it's worth considering. I expect living in such a development can relieve a lot of stresses about property maintenance and provide extra support if you need it. You would, of course, need to get legal advice to ensure that there are no disadvantageous conditions tucked away in the contract, and establish by what percentage any fees are allowed to increase.

Can you post the link Galen so we can all have a look?

It seems quite nice

The residents would of course also be entitled to NHS social care.

Galen I suppose it depends on what £374,000 would buy you in an ordinary development in the same area.

The service charge is over £7,000 so you would have to factor that in.

The option of meals, 24-hour emergency call, personal care, etc are an attraction only if you need that sort of help.

No harm in going to have a look around!

Something similar is being built in my daughters village so I suppose it's something I might consider at some point [although not sure if I could afford those sort of prices].

When they say 'care' to what level do they take that [eg the S.O.s mother has carers going in 2/3 times a day to put her to bed, bath her etc]. What if the level of care exceeds that which they can provide?

Mum lived in a brand new assisted care complex Galen. The charges were similar to the one you describe.

We did find it a bit much that she had to pay for services she would never use because of her frailty like a library (always empty) a coffee lounge (you had to get your coffee from a machine) a laundrette (I had bring her laundry home and do it for her) a cinema/meeting room (she couldn't handle that because of her macular degeneration) to name but a few.

These places are great so long as you are fit enough to reap the benefits but there's no getting away from the fact that they're full of.....old people

Galen are you thinking of this for yourself?

The buying price sounds reasonable. Is there dedicated parking, lifts, etc?

What's the policy of visitors and reselling?

The service and wellbeing sounds a tad pricey but it depends what you actually get for that and his efficiently it is delivered. Is the company who presently offers this likely to sell the franchise to another company?

As it's brand new there is no one to recommend it. That's the main problem but then perhaps this company already runs other similar projects?

gillybob I think that the amount of work and family responsibilities you have must quite often feel overwhelming.

I think children who have had a reasonably good relationship with their parents/grandparents would automatically want to offer some support if it was needed. You surely wouldn't want your children to be totally selfish and unwilling to offer any help if it was needed? I would imagine though that you feel the nature and degree of that support would depend on their own circumstances and how much time and energy they could spare without seriously affecting their own lives. Why shouldn't that proviso extend to your own situation? I have great admiration for your kindness and compassion but perhaps it is going unnoticed that you are taking on more than is reasonable.

grandma2213 I don't know how old you are but it is much easier to embrace these sorts of ideas when you are some way away from putting them into practice. I don't like the implication that elderly people (or anyone else that needs extra help) are a "burden" on society and I think that instead of promoting this idea, a decent society should provide more financial and practical help to carers. When people reach a point when they have had enough, they have the right to refuse life-prolonging procedures and treatment but I feel that should be a personal decision which has in no way been prompted by notions of "being a burden" to family or society.

I've just received a brochure for a new sheltered accommodation building in my town. A three bedroomed flat with a balcony £374500 with a communal facility fee of15% on selling. The service and wellbeing fee is £138 per week

You still have to pay council tax telephone electricity and tv licence plus contents insurance..
If you need care its £15 am hour
You can get a 3 course meal for £3

There is 24 hour emergency call.

It all sounds very nice but rather pricey I thought.
What do you think?

You can purchase a 1 bed for £185500 or a two bed for £250000

going back to the "payment for care homes" I have recently read so much about wills/money/ownership of house/who gets what/where the money goes etc etc ..........what I did read is something to do with what is on your tittle deeds)Land registry) if I have read correctly (but don't quote me on this) if! your land reg states you are "Tenants in Common) they can only use half of the proceeds of the house etc to pay for care, the other half remains the other spouses, that has survived...maybe have a look as I have looked at so much stuff lately, if you google Tenanants in Common. I am still awaiting some info, our house was Joint Tenements or "Beneficial Tenants, I did post on another thread "Wills" I was told many years ago by a friend whos husband had died to change the Deeds/Land reg, to "Tenants in Common" that way she said they could only take half of the proceeds/estate to pay for DH care if he had to go in a home. maybe worth while investigating!

I knew an old lady who still lived in her own home but was blind and in constant pain. When I visited her she would say over and over again how awful it was to be in her situation..she really had had enough of it. And another friend, a wonderful, intelligent funny man who had terrible problems breathing, was in and out of hospital and found it difficult to speak most of the time. We seem to have created a world where people are kept alive for many years beyond the point where they have quality of life. It's as if we now have the power of life and death but we don't know how to deal with it , probably because, as with most things in life until it actually affects us personally we don't truly understand what it's like to be in that position, no matter how much we try to empathise. And, as a race we can't truly trust ourselves not to abuse voluntary euthanasia and use it for the wrong reasons.

With respect, if you couldnt function mentally, you wouldnt be able to do it yourself anyway. Well, not intentionally.
[subject a bit close to home, as someone local with dementia was confused, and killed herself accidentially last weekend].

How long would it stay voluntary if it became "selfish" to avoid it?

Have you sen the fim "Soylent Green" ?

I doubt that you would choose it if it came to it Grandma2213.
How old are you? [you dont have to answer that].

Agree with Riverwalk and loopylou

Hideous thought, IMO perhaps easy to talk about but the connotations are horrific. It is very different situation from those who chose Dignitas.
Selective genocide comes to mind [shudder]

IMO promoting voluntary euthanasia for older people is dangerous talk.