in being disgusted with Oxford SU inviting Marine Lepen???

Meeting face to face adds to the reading for those that are, or starting to be slightly inclined towards the subject.

Listening and being aware, making sure one's aware, is not encouragement.

How would one know one's enemy if one didn't hear what one's enemy had to say or what one's enemy wanted, soon? People don't go around with 'evil intentions' or 'good intentions' printed on their foreheads.

How did granjura know that she was disgusted that LePen was invited to speak at the Oxford Uni debating society? She knew because she had either heard what LePen has already said, or read news items about her and such like. What's the essential difference between reading about what she says or hearing her say it? None, I'd say.

So listen out for your enemies. Know them by knowing what they stand for and then vote against them to keep them and their ideas out of power.

You dont ignore them.
But you dont actively encourage them.
It is playing with fire. Some get burnt.

I admit I was quite shocked, even upset, when the FN opened a small office in our nearest small town on market day. That's when the town is packed, the office is closed the rest of the week. I've never seen anyone visiting.
Now that I've got over my initial reaction I would like to go in and ask what their racial policies are, but I don't think my french is good enough.

And "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer".

You are saying what I was, jings but straight from the shoulder.

The sheep were because of the image of sheep not thinking for themselves.

What's all this animal stuff?

#woodforthetrees

(I mean her, not France. As "enemy")

Of course you have to let her speak. We all need to know what the current thinking is in other European countries, and her views are endorsed by many in France.

Know your enemy?

I was asking if you think that wolves (animal or human) can be stopped from preying on sheep by preventing the sheep (animal or human) from seeing them?

I was saying that it would be better to teach the sheep (perhaps just the human ones, animal sheep are not all that good at learning new things) to look carefully at what they are being told, and to judge whether it is good or bad by comparing it to their own experience and to what they know, rather than keeping any sight of the wolves from them. and hoping that they will not noice them and pay attention to their propaganda.

To counter the bad propaganda, good propaganda is needed, to encourage the attitudes and actions that will form a barrier against ones that cause intolerance and wars and terrorism.

I am afraid I cannot explain what I mean any more simply than that. If you still don't understand, I must leave you with your pre-conceptions.

Nor you next post. I dont understand that one either.

No to your question.

But I dont understand what that question has to do with this thread

Speeches promoting the things that the wolves are against. Publicising the good side of "the West" or whatever they think is oppressing them. Outnumber them. Outgood them.

"For evil to flourish it is necessary only that good men do nothing".

I must leave the computer now and do something more useful.

And you think they will be stopped in the tracks by ignoring their existence until they have control of the world?

And what about the non sheep?
It is those who join IS for example.
Who have listened to speeches etc.
And may not have joined etc if those speeches had not happened.

human wolves can be stopped in their tracks

Wars down through the ages.
IS
Nazis etc ad infinitum?

Time to post yet again the poem by Martin Niemoller -

" First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me. "

If we close our eyes and ears, and cover up everyone else's, how do we know that "they" are going to be coming for anyone?

If a sheep (real woolly sort) sees a wolf, it is scared and runs off, and the rest of the flock follow it. It has an innate knowledge of what wolves do. So even as a sheep it has more sense than some humans.

People don't seem to be born with that instinct. They need to learn it or be taught it. Keeping the human wolves out of sight only keeps the naive humans safe until one of the wolves sneaks out. Tying a blindfold round a sheep so that it doesn't see the predator doesn't stop it getting eaten.

Learning how to recognise one before it bites them (or bites someone else because no-one noticed it creeping up) means that the human wolves can be stopped in their tracks.

Sorry, bags I skim-read and have just seen that you already said that

Free speech has clear boundaries in the UK - if it goes as far as incitement of hatred crime, it's not allowed. It doesn't go all the way soon.

There have alwasy been a huge number of sheep.
It has more to do with not wanting to stand out from the crowd, than education.

Then people need to be educated (at school, at home) to think about the things they hear, and not follow like sheep.

That is what education should be about, how to learn and think, not how to just memorise stuff and repeat it.

thatbags - thanks for your persistence

But you do know some people do those things afterwards [threats or violence], as a result partly because of speeches?
[and out sight of the law?]
It all adds up.
This is to thatbags, not granjura.

Free speech doesn't go all the way. Some things are barred (those laws I mentioned earlier), such as threats, or incitement to violence.