ESTRANGEMENT- The silent epidemic! Let's get this out of the cupboard.

What about the GP who spanked their own children? What safeguard is there for GC in that instance. Abusive people really shouldn't be in proximity of children. I think that's a major reason for CO GPs. Abuse.

Bibbity. I see where you are coming from.

I also think though, that you are strong enough to protect your child for a little while, while they are in the company of the grandparent?
[if the grandparent is an addict, I would say that being in a neutral place might be a good idea].

If your child sees you as being strong in such a circumstance, I think a child picks up on that, and learns from that. A good lesson for them to learn.

They will still know that they very much matter.

I'd not allow someone I deem toxic into their lives while they were minors. What they chose to do at 18 is their choice.
I vet all caregivers etc so I know I trust them 100%

I'd say it's cruel to expect someone to go through so much pain just to keep someone else who causes the pain happy.

Bibbity. What age do you think they will be old enough?
To me, and I cant say I have given it a lot of thought up to now, I think with most things, children learn things bit by bit, and daily about all sorts of things. And I would include learning about relationships with both children and adults in that.

Though of course, even if they did not get grandparent contact, they still learn about adults through nursery, school etc.

They can indeed be altered by actions and words of others. Most definitely. But they then also learn from parents how to deal with things that may be hard to deal with.

To a certain extent, the practice they get, while they are being very well looked after by those parents, is a safe way for them to learn about adult relationships, if you see what I mean?

In other words, they learn, just like they learn about all sorts of other things.

Of course there are.
The confidence to speak your mind.
The knowledge that you matter.
The knowledge that your happiness matters.
The knowledge that no one can demand your time or attention without you wanting them to.
The knowledge that no one has a right to be in your life.

So celeb. You think AC should be distressed, anxious, upset just to have someone they don't like in their life?

Bibbity right tools? Not sure ? if there are any??

At end of day it is all so very sad kindness consideration eve. Basic human decency don't seem to come into the equation.

My husband is 72 on Sunday I doubt he will ever see his Grandchildren now.
Life really is too short to be so cruel.

Intoonsorry about your dad red headed mommy

I can understand my dad died when I was just 16
My mum when I was just 29

It was hard I missed her so, and had to watch her dye horrid death with ovarian cancer.

My daughter was only 3 it was hard,

My daughter cut me off when she was 28 poignant really,

I'm not wrapping them up in cotton wool! They damn well know life isn't fair.
They didn't get chocolate for breakfast tough.
They didn't get to do what they wanted. Tough.
They have to share. Tough.

However I will not allow toxic people around them until they are old enough and have the right tools.
Right now they can be altered by actions and words of others. So as their mother it is my right and responsibility to protect them.

Redheadedmommy. No, it is not supposed to be like that at all, sadly.

These posts are starting to bring me to tears. And I dont say that, or do that very often! I feel so sorry for you and others.

I realise that your mum [how shall I put it?] is a right so and so.

Could you specifically ask her not to say such things about illnesses to your daughter? And the reasons?[I expect you have tried that many times before].

Life is indeed short.I was going to write something about your mums life being short too, but she actually may not very old yet.
And I do see your problem.

So sorry about your dad. That is likely to be raw for you for a long time.

Bibbity your children are going to have to learn that life isn't all a bed of roses
People do get angry things dont t go smoothly we experience 2nd hand smoke constantly people smoke on the streets no one can live in a plastic bubble.

Show me anyone who never gets angry, or loses their temper? It's unrealistic not to teach children. How to deal with real world.

No. But we can protect them now. And fill their heads with the idea that they matter. They their happiness matters and that they never ever have to have people in their lives who cause they misery.

Bibbity. I feel for you as well
I think it is nice that you do still have some feelings for the other GP.

I will never expose my child to an addict. Addicts are by nature selfish and dangerous.

I think they sometimes are. But sometimes, they lost control of something.
I would indeed be very careful with a child around them, and two hours in a park might be too long, but even a regular few minutes might be nice for gp and grandchild?

I would never make my child believe that a toxic person is safe or someone they should trust.

True. Very true. But a few minutes a month, fully supervised, could still be done?

^I would never raise my child to feel that other people are their responsibility. That they should be forced to be in situations that cause them distress solely because said person feels it's their right.
Would you expect a woman to visit her Ex husband once a month because he wants to?^

No, I would not expect that. But the relationship between a child and grandparent is not exactly the same as that.

I think their world might expand a bit when they grow up and make friends who don't hold Norah's standards. Can't protect them forever!

Norah - do you think their world is a bit narrower for that?

I'm very very close to one Nanna.
The other GP is still alive. I spent some forced time with them as a child. I could've easily done without it.
I will not morn their death much at all.

I so wish it was as easy as that. I really do.
I wish it was normal. It's not supposed to be like this is it?

I lost my dad to cancer a few months ago. I'm not even 30. He was young and it was horrific. Lying about having that to gain to sympathy doesn't wash with me.
It's life changing. Life is short. I told DH that we could offer an Olive brand and he refused point blank.
My DDS are pretty low on Grandparents and it's a shame, but they have some cool family. I'd rather them have mentally stable people in their life, imagine if she said something like that again and DD overheard. What happens then? The memories of Grandad come back and she thinks it's going to happen to her nan?
She's old enough to remember.

I'm not willing to risk it.

I will never expose my child to an addict. Addicts are by nature selfish and dangerous.
I would never make my child believe that a toxic person is safe or someone they should trust.
I would never raise my child to feel that other people are their responsibility. That they should be forced to be in situations that cause them distress solely because said person feels it's their right.
Would you expect a woman to visit her Ex husband once a month because he wants to?

My children will not put their children at risk of 2nd hand smoke, of covert drinking, swearing, screaming, violence. And neither would I, we have standards.

Redheadedmommy. I feel for you

That sort of thing from your own mum is going to be draining for all concerned.
I think I would have to somewhat tune her out.

I personally would still do the once a month meet up in the park for a couple of hours thing.

For the child's sake and somewhat for my own. I would think I had done my bit as best as anyone is able in that sort of circumstance.
I would then spend time afterwards explaining to the child what gran is like[not in a horrible way, but in a matter of fact way] to the child.
To my mind, the positives would outweigh the negatives.

I am not saying there are no negatives. There are. But the child[and I suppose I am thinking of school specifically, but also the child when talking to his/her friends] can talk freely about grandparents, even if they themselves do it a bit negatively too.

Just my opinion.

'Meetings could still be arranged in a neutral place, for a couple of hours a month or whatever, for the grandparent to play with the grandchild in a park, fully supervised or something like that.'

I would pay you to say that to my MIL.
I'm going to give you a summary of what it would be.

'Is that all you think of me? I'm not welcome in your house now. I can't believe this. You've broken my heart, after everything I've done for you and you treat me like this? I'm so depressed, the doctors have given me tablets and I might have cancer. I'm crying my heart out. I can't believe you've treated me like this..
I can't even make any of those times it'll have to be twice a month. And you'll have to pick me up and drop me off home. I'll let you know on the day what time I'm avaliable'

That's happened. The lies about illnesses. The change of plan to suit her, The taxi rides to suit her and a good dollop and emotional blackmail to boot. If we don't agree to that, we get FIL on the phone telling us the same thing again trying to get us to change our mind to suit MIL.

Nothing is good enough unless it's her way.

Do we want someone who lies about having Cancer and Mental illnesses to get her own way, around Children? It's a no from me.

Bibbity.
A certain belief gran - yes, I can see that that could be problematic. But I would hope that things could be worked out, or that the gran would realise to tone it down, big time, if necessary.

^I see people saying about how the child is missing out.
But as long as their being cared for by loving, supportive parents they don't need those people^

Need is an interesting word.
I suppose no, they dont need grandparents as such. But grandparents generally enrich the lives of the grandchildren. Big time in some cases.
I suppose it it like going through life missing out on what other friends around you often have, plus it adds a dimension to their lives, that parents, purely by being their parents, just cannot give them.

I was going to post something else about something else you wrote, but I dont think I will.

Can I ask, did you yourself benefit from grandparents Bibbity?

So a smoking gran is toxic - dont agree

A drinking gran is toxic - I would say never toxic enough to stop contact. Though I would ask that drinking gran does it more privately if it is over the top.
But a visit in a park at midday should not cause too many problems?

A swearing gran - That is probably most of them. Again, ask them to cut it down around the grandchild.

A screaming gran - I cant say I have heard too many of them in a park, but again, they can be asked to stop.

A saying inappropriate things gran - yes, I would have to say that that is more problematic. Speaking to them might work, but it might not.
Someone else may have some ideas there, but hopefully something could be worked out.

Thank you for replying.

It's individual. Everyone is different and their boundaries are different.
That's why you might find people with one CO child and one who condemns their siblings actions.
But the parent has the choice of what they expose their child to. They need to decide wether certain attitudes or behaviours go against their beliefs and how they wish to parent.
I see people saying about how the child is missing out.
But as long as their being cared for by loving, supportive parents they don't need those people.

Toxic gran can say inappropriate things about son and dil or dd and sil. Toxic gran can be inappropriate in any number of ways, she can smoke, drink, swear, scream.