ESTRANGEMENT- The silent epidemic! Let's get this out of the cupboard.

Araabra

No, 'dear' it's YOU who are perfect.

And, not only that, you are fully au fait with the details of your brother in laws AC's relationship. That, apparently, is your point of reference

Interesting that you denigrate Americans on the Cheese thread but have used Mom in your posts. Not a word we use in the UK..

Smiles No, you are ignoring any part parents play in estrangement. You are perfect. Sorry, just ain't so.

The relationship between a parent and child is like no other and believe me you'd have a completely different perspective if you ever became estranged from your child notanan. I fail to see how in relation to this topic you can make a comparison with friendships and casual sexual relationships.

All relationships can be difficult and cause unhappiness from time to time but walking away from a friend, a casual sexual partner or even the person you married is one thing. Abandoning your own parents and denying GC a relationship with their GP's is another all together, and then there are the AC who cease contact with their ENTIRE family.

I'm not ignoring the fact that in some cases GP's play a large part in an estrangement Araabra, you are ignoring the fact that this isn't always the case and you've been doing so from your first post.

Smiles.

You might as well bang your head on a concrete wall or drive a nail through your hand.
These women(if indeed they are women - makes me wonder) are simply never going to give an inch. Their entrenched views reveals more about them than they realise!

They are either justifying (albeit to themselves) something from their past or, as just mentioned, they are Trolls.

A Troll is a person who sows discord on the Internet by posting inflammatory or off topic messages (vis a vis Bibbities 'magic Virginia') in an online community with the intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or otherwise, disrupting normal discussion, often for the Trolls amusement.

The mose effective way to discourage the troll is to ignore 'it' because responding tends to continue their disruptive posts, hence the oft-seen warning:

PLEASE DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS

Amazing how they all descend and home in on estranged GP's - reminds me of a group of vultures I saw earlier today on our travels.....

Lots of relationships end. Marraiges, friendships, casual sexual relationships etc
Family relationships are no different.

nobody is ever wrong to stop a relationship that makes them unhappy.

If someone's ex boyfriend feels a dumping is unjustified, that does not make it so, nobody has to stay in a relationship that makes them unhappy, even if the other person in the relationship is happy to continue it, in fact ESPECIALLY if the other person tells the dumpee that they are wrong to leave them!

The premise of the thread allows for no self reflexion.

Generally, surmising GPs play a large part in the estrangement is ignored. My point.

I'm not talking about blame, I'm talking about the historical context of estrangements.

No you're not. You're not taking on board that some parents and GP's become estranged through no fault of their own. I'm not trying to 'shut you down' I'm simply pointing out that when a perfectly logical point is made that supports what some of us are saying, it's completely ignored.

I didn't make any reference to what I perceive as the consequence for an AC when their estranged parent dies and Celeb didn't say she was day dreaming about her ED being punished via her grief when her parents die; that was said by you notanan

Ararrbra's discussing this topic in general; really, have you read her posts.

MissAdventure

This topic has not been discussed generally for the last few pages

Tris
Araabra
And myself are still discussing it generally, you don't get to shut us down just because you don't want to talk about the premise of the thread any more

smileless

You were the one bringing up what you percieve as consequences for AC who cut off their parents.. I disagree that that is a common consequence, and I stand by my post that people who tend to thoughts like that are probably hard to deal with.

The bulk of my post was about whether or not estrangement is some sort of modern phenomenon, clearly!

I suggest you take another look at your post notanan, making an accusation of someone daydreaming that the AC their estranged from will be punished by feelings of guilt when they die, has nothing to do with the premise of this thread.

This topic has not been discussed generally for the last few pages. There have been some nasty and ill informed posts by those who whenever this topic is discussed, automatically assume that parents and GP's who find themselves estranged are solely responsible for their plight.

When a perfectly reasonable point is raised which questions that point of view, which was made in my previous post ie that the entire family and not just the parents are cut out, this is ignored.

How ever an AC chooses to estrange their parents, there is no way of doing so 'less dramatically'. Estrangement is dramatic, the consequences are far reaching and it's being referred to as a silent epidemic (not a modern one) because that is how psychologists and sociologists regard it. Silent because it's rarely openly discussed and going by some of the posts it attracts on GN, one can understand why and an epidemic, because it's sadly on the increase.

My post was about the premise of this whole thread: that estrangement is some sort of modern epidemic. It's not, it's always happened, it just requires less dreastic measures… but never mind you make this an "us against them" thread as you always do when this topic is being discussed generally…

Whose day dreaming that an "estranged AC (is) punished with regret when they die". Once again notanan, like some of the of the posters in here, you put words in the mouths of others, deliberately misconstruing what's been said.

Some of you are so totally blinkered that you simply wont accept that some parents are estranged form their AC through no fault of their own. Whereas we, the estranged parents and GP's, DO accept that there are cases where an AC has little or no choice because of a damaging relationship they've had with their parents.

That was a good post Celeb, as you say there is no shame for the parent who raised their abandoning child with love, care and respect.

A lot of these AC don't just discard their parents but their entire family. Could it be that all of their GGP's, GP's, aunts, uncles, cousins and in some instances siblings are such horrible, toxic people, each one colluding in the bad childhood they experienced, that they too are not fit to be a part of theirs and their children's lives.

Or could it be that all of those family members know there is no justification for their behaviour so the AC is unwilling and/or unable to have anything to do with them because of their shame.

I would also add, that the kind of person that daydreams about an estranged AC being "punished" with regret when they die… is again, possibly answering their own questions about the whys of the estrangement.

( Just incase it gets nitpicked, in my post of 12:40:22, I'm talking about hostile divorces of course, not friendly acrimonious ones)

i think you're grabbing at straws to think that someone who decided a relationship with someone isn't working will suffer regret when that person dies. Like they will finally be punished! Most people do not. Many feel nothing, some feel deep relief. Estrangement is permanant most people know that, it's not a bit of a sulk that goes wrong if the other person happens to die 20 years in!

Why should caring parents feel shame? Didn't say they should , clearly, I just explained how it was perhaps less embarrassing to talk about the AC to emigrated (back when that meant little or no contact) or joined a convent, than it is to explain that you don't know what your Daughter who lives one town away does for a job! So the estrangement is more visable - estrangements being more visable doesn't mean that they are more frequent than in the past.

They have to live with this and after their parents deaths it may if those doing the estrangement have any normal caring feelings be a time of deep regret I deeply regret the years I wasted on trying to make a bad relationship work!
By your rationing, divorced men and women regret their divorce once their ex dies? Most don't, many just regret ever marrying them!

Why should caring parents feel shame?

That is the feeling I would imagine engulfs those discarding loving parents after making use of all they could take from them. They have to live with this and after their parents deaths it may if those doing the estrangement have any normal caring feelings be a time of deep regret.

I know I feel at peace thinking i did all I could for my sadly missed mum and father in law.

Interesting (although common sense for those with a capacity for empathy) re opiate addicts:
www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/fixing-fentanyl-means-treating-trauma-that-creates-addicts-1.3966361

Families haven't been able to get along since Genesis

LOL I know right? I'm assuming that those who think that this is a "new development" have never even dabbled in genealogy! Give it a try and see how many dead ends/i.e. estrangements and new starts, you find going back just a couple of generations.

The only "new development" here is that people can say "enough" to their family without having to abandon everything that's familiar, including at times their name!

In the past people were estranged, but in order to do so often had to:
- emigrate
- move to a large city and go into service
- marry the first chap that came along
- join the missions/priesthood/convent
- sometimes start totally anew with a new name
- even resort to suicide!

The only difference nowadays is that an adult child can remain living a couple of streets away getting on with their lives as before, just without the family member whose relationship they weren't enjoying being a part of their lives!

Of course, for the estranged parents, it's a more shameful estrangement compaired to estrangements of the past where a daughter in a convent or a son making his fortune in NY was a badge of honour… Nowadays the parents might actually have to admit to the estrangement if people ask " how's the kids/grandkids" ?

I'm shaking my head in wonder. Sociologists may want to research this "development"? Families haven't been able to get along since Genesis.