ESTRANGEMENT- The silent epidemic! Let's get this out of the cupboard.

Enjoy yogagirl! Yes Tor and I used to have arguments big ones she would go off on one as Graham said but we were so close that I will. Ever ever understand I too have drawer full cards but how she put what would I do without you ? See s so bittersweet now,

Well gorgeous day In frinton seeing Monika later she in flat so may be better she comes to us instead.

Lovely card from your daughter Tor Celebgran I have the same cards & little notes from mine, from that to just cutting us out for no reason, I hadn't even had an argument or a bad word with mine! How does this bring them happiness? I would love this answered by my EstD.
Happy Friday ( my one day & evening off)

Yes it is worthit well done.

A lot of people of other support group feel it is the culture of some not all of course offspring to take all they can and feel not respect or care needed in return. Family can be discarded like last years fashion.

Mother love is unconditional but no one expects to be discarded like rubbish after a lifetime of doing your best.

Hardest thing is not accept nothing more you can do except pray one day things will change and focus on People who do want you.

Of course losing grandchildren hurts like nothing else has ever hurt me and my daughter knows this, after 28 years of doing all I could for her I just would like to ask her why? Sadly over 6 years and never ever an acknowledgment for all cards presents we send at Xmas and birthdays expect we are rather stupid to Carry on.

She didn't always feel like this see card just before her wedding, cynical me thinks well bought wedding dress gave her 2,000 was it all about that?

Lovely post worthit thanks for your in-put

I have always been perplexed by (a) middle-aged people who still act and think like teenagers (b) self-centred offspring who seem oblivious to their parents kindness and generosity and pass this attitude on to their own offspring (c) younger people who think older people were born 70 years old and 'don't have a clue' and don't really realise that many of us have more knowledge in our little pinky than they have in the whole of their big heads (d)........ I could list a lot more.
I don't think it has always been like this, I think it is the changing British culture and society we are evolving (I'm alright jack, keep up with the Jones's, monkey see, monkey do).
The cure could be the school curriculum. Give all children a level playing field by teaching them the value of relationships and family life and to see older people as sources of learning and secondary parenthood.

Message deleted by Gransnet for breaking our forum guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

Welcome back Saturnvista and many congratulations on your bonny boy :-)
Thank you for your kind wishes for my ND & growing grandbaby, alls quiet at the moment, my D has a consultation on Wednesday to decide on a date for inducing unfortunately, my D doesn't want this to happen but looks like it's the way to go!

Just returned to this thread after a long break during which we have acquired a strapping new baby boy I see the conversation has moved on from discussions about grandparents rights etc. Yogagirl Love to hear that you are soon to become a grandparent again and wish you and your daughter lots of joy and all the best for the eventful days ahead.

Eliana Your post has touched me and I would love to help if I could. You asked if anyone could help you see where you had gone wrong. Without knowing the circumstances I obviously can't, so can only throw out a couple of thoughts on reading your post. Could it be that your DIL feel that your sons are the people who matter to you, therefore they are a bit irrelevant to the visit? Perhaps they need to know that you would like to know them as adults, rather than as daughters? In your position I think I wouldn't talk to my sons about it but would instead send the DIL a little note saying you realise they have busy lives and need their own space but you would also like to know them a little better as this is something that you regret not having done sooner. Then I would say that you are going to be in the area on such and such a week and ask if you could take them out for lunch or coffee at a specific place on whatever day would suit best. I realise you live far away and this would mean travelling a long way for potentially nothing, but I can see no other way to reach out to them I'm afraid. When you see them, treat them as adults and don't try to have a heart to heart. Just be warm, non-threatening and interested in them as people. If it doesn't work out, try again. But you must be interested in them for their own sake if at all possible, not as a means of reaching other family members. At the very least, I think your sons will be very appreciative of the interest you're taking in their wives. That is the way to warm things up between you all, not complaining to your sons.

The only other thing that occurs to me is this. When you bought all kinds of baby things, did you buy them to keep at your house or as gifts? Either way, there could be problems. If they were gifts, then (rightly or wrongly!) it's perceived as diplomatic in my generation to ask the person who is pregnant if there is anything they need for the baby and then to offer to pay for their choice of whatever item they mention. This is how my family have done it. I realise it may be very precious and ungrateful but at the same time, many grandparents buy cots to keep in their own house and expect sleepovers to begin when the baby is a matter of days or weeks - I'm not saying that you would. But it could be seen as pushy and therefore a reason to back off.

I do hope that something here may be useful to you. If you feel there is anything else I could think about, please feel free to PM me.

So pleased your daughter well and home, please don't feel guilty about funeral you did right thing.

Reckon same as you won't be long now!

Gloom lifting bit was lovely see Danika and her mum then Steve rang from America to check on dates come. See us then my twin called round been Thrown out again !! Silly man. Not feeling great though could be summer cold!! Go away it came on Sudden after Monika went grrrr
Oh all cakes went my brother polished of last 2 success

My ND sent me a photo she had found online of my EstD & him, obviously dressed to go out, but he looked really evil, cold eyes, my D had cold eyes too, both unsmiling, which is a bit odd when you're having a pic taken! My ND said they look like they are about to go out and murder someone (I quickly made sure my doors were locked) My ND also said she looked just like me when I was that age (from pics) apart from the cold eyes of course. I know you would say 'well she (me) would say he looked evil in the pic, but he really did look like the mug shoots you see on the news of the physcio killer and a shiver goes down your spine when you look at him and think 'yes, he did it!' :O

Pass those cakes over girls
Just got back from visiting my ND, she is home now, resting, still not feeling well, I think the baby is getting ready to make her way into the world soon, wouldn't be a bit surprised when I get a phone call to either rush to the hospital or rush her there myself. I feel bad now not going to the funeral, but at the time I had to make a decession and of course my D had to be put first. Got it wrong regarding the twin sacks, I've now learnt that there is an inner and outter membrane and it was the outter one that ruptured!
I watched that drama called 'a song for Jenny' I felt just like the mum who lost her D with the same name as my estranged one, only it wasn't a bomb that took her and destroyed our family forever, it was my nasty s.i.l & his mother :'( :'( :'(

Cakes yummy tho say so myself, Monika always bakes for us so hey no are effort,
So damn low again it's test photo of me as Tor that's done it this time
Also bone weary does t help put wrong oven on for jackets and opps late
Icing Gra up soon got them in microwave and crisped up in oven with sea bass fillets and green beans were good.

Folk dancing after long day then acquacise mmmm feeling. My age.

Glad your n son got lovely wife smileless. We both been cake making! I have frozen some due to weight management
Hope daughter still ok and hanging on to your beautiful grandchild bit longer yogagirl xx

So pleased that all is OK with your DD Yogagirl. Her decision to keep her little one safe inside for as long as she can is a good one. It must be a comfort to know she is being cared for and closely monitored. You did the right thing not going to the funeral; your neighbour was right.

Yes Celebgran our lovely d.i.l. is here too but we haven't seen much of her which we knew would be the case, just a couple of hours on Sunday afternoon which was lovely, she's a smashing girl and just what our DS needs.

Hope your cakes turned out OK. I baked one on Saturday for DS, the first for ages as with there just being the 2 of us it means we end up eating too much. I must say it was rather good.

Not long until your trip, hope you have a great time.

Just taken little one for his second jab, he was as good as gold, not even a sound when the microchip was put in. Test results back for my little cat, nothing has shown up so next step are blood tests. I was really hoping something would have presented itself as this potentially means we could be looking at something more serious.

Relieved that all well so far yogagirl think you did right thing staying with her yesterday you would only have worried.

What lot excitement to come ! Will watch anxiously for news!

Must be hard smileless. Did his wife come too?

Almost seeing him much as I see Steve, hope see him next month.

Breaking news have cakes In oven first ones made in new cooker as Monika coming round tomorrow with Danika.

Hope is. Ewes before we go away yogagirl if not please messenger it, we away next mon to Friday warners thoresby.

Folk dancing party fun and went acquacise today what with that and trip to. Newmarket yesterday shattered now!

Morning girls
Start again
I was just saying that my Hudle seems to have a mind of it's own today, as I was about to reply to you Celebgran on messenger & it jumped onto here , then it did it again & I lost my post
Firstly, so glad to hear you've had your hugs & kisses with your dear son smileless I know you want him all to yourself but at his age he has lots of friends to catch up with. My son was the same when he came back from Uni in the holidays, but he was home a lot so it was OK.
I didn't go to the funeral yesterday, I was just so worried about my D, I phoned her early in the morning and she was ok, so I said I would phone her before I left for the funeral, to check all was well. When I left her the night before, she was still having low back pain, stomach ach and feeling not so good. Phoned from 10.30-11.15 with no reply, I was already 15mins late to leave, so I jumped in the car to begin my journey not being sure which destination. I saw my neighbour as I was leaving & she said "the living need you not the dead!" which made me gulp! Tried my D again on the hands free, nothing, so I swang round and headed for the hospital!
She was having a scan when I was phoning, so didn't know. Anyway she is OK, they were still talking about inducing her today, but she is being firm in saying no, it's too early. They are going to monitor her daily, so I think she is still going to be induced if the baby isn't here in a weeks time. Apparently she had two sakes! and one rupture, so it would seem that in the very beginning her body was gearing up for twins!

Oh Yogagirl you must be on the edge of your seat now, waiting for this precious little bundle to come safely into the world. for you and your daughter. She must be worried but if the scan shows all is well, then all must be.

DH had just lit the BBQ 6.15pm Saturday and I heard the gate go and there he was. My wonderful boy, so handsome and so precious that I did the only three things I could do; I ran to him, threw my arms around him and burst into tears.

I thought he'd only be in France 2 or 3 days but he goes on Wednesday and doesn't come back until Sunday then a mere 4 days later goes back to Aus. Everyone wants to see him so we've not had much time together which we're finding rather frustrating. He says he'll spend more time with us when he gets back from France. Iand tell him not to worry, I understand and it's OK but it's very hard. We've actually only spent about 9 hours with him so far. He's visiting his grandmother today, then going to a friends for tea (who he saw last night and we were in bed by the time he got back!!!) and going with him to meet up with some others for a drink and staying the night. Don't know what he's got planned for tomorrow just know he leaves for France Wednesday morning.

Thank goodness we're going there for 3 weeks this Christmas, if I was seeing so little of him now in the knowledge that it would be at least another year before we see him again, I'd probably have him locked in a cupboard.

Yogagirl what a stress and worry thank god your,daughter in hospital I would be tempted to pass on funeral she needs you on hand,just my opinion.
Am sure people would understand.

Keep us posted and thinking of you.

. Look like you won't have long to wait! Sending big hugs xxx

Smileless hope you having amazing reunion look forward hearing about it.

Morning girls
So I'm guessing you have had your wonderful hug from your dear son from Oz smileless enjoy your time with him, how long is he here for & how long is he staying in Oz for before returning to live in UK again?
Well it's all happening here! My ND came over on Friday, not feeling well, low back pain & seemed to be leaking! She phoned the maternity ward, but it all died down and she then went home. I got in from my work last night about 6.30 took doggie for a little walk, got our dinners ready & eaten, just about to have my first sip of nice cold white wine & my ND phoned! Same thing as the day before, so we went to the hospital and it turns out she is leaking amniotic fluid, they gave her a scan, baby is fine. My ND is 35wks today, which is the time when everything is OK for baby to be born, but as a precaution they gave her a steroid injection last night & again today, this just makes sure the babies lungs are strong enough to be born & they are keeping her in for 48hrs. She will have to stop work now, she was aming to work till the 24th, I did say to her that's too long. Her feet a very swollen, so she's been told to rest iin bed today. She was on the phone this morning crying, as she is naturally worried, but we know baby is OK by the scan, it just seems she will be with us a little earlier than planed.
Im worried as I have a family funeral to go to tomorrow, my uncle, but it's a long way off in Basingstoke, so 2.5-3hr journey (?)

On smileless would t jt be wonderful if your nice son could sow healing seed with your other son that would be so good!

If not agree that best. It to discuss,
I have pleased with our son to contact our daughter Tor but I guess deep Down am proud of his loyalty to me.

Totally understand. Where you coming from yogagirl

Oh dear calling,! Enjoy this marvellous summer evening. All

I totally understand how you feel Yogagirl. I'm pleased that our boys have kept their relationship going but it's not easy for us. Our ES and his awful wife were trying to cause a rift between us and we think nearly succeeded but thank God our DS was only prepared to go so far.

My wonderful boy will back on English soil now, his flight from Aus. was due to land at 12.30pm. I can't tell you how excited I am to be able to see him in the flesh and hug him after more than a year since I was last able too; just thinking about him walking through that door gives me goose bumps all over and tears in my eyes.

He'll be going down the road to visit the monsters and our little grandson. I wont want to know when he's going and/or when he's been. We've agreed not to talk about his brother but bless him, he just doesn't seem to be able to help himself. If he mentions him, I'll just say that our time with him is so precious we just want to enjoy it and we mustn't let anything or anyone spoil it.

Thank you smileless & Celebgran
I watched 24hrs in A&E, (recorded) last night & long lost families, both brought a tear to my eye and I really hope my EstD watched them, they are so touching! all about the closeness of families & how family is the most important thing in the world, or are all programmes about families taboo in their house (?) I wonder.
Unlike you smileless my house is full of photos, too many! When I eventually move I will just put a few up. I selfishly am glad my ND is cut out too, I feel really bad saying that as she loved & misses her sister & niece & nephew very much, but from my point of view, if she was still in with them they would be trying to turn her against me too, this they did try, unsuccessfully, before she was cut out too!
& for tonight, well it is Friday

I like it when you waffle Yogagirl, not that you were of course. I'm not a photo's person. We have tons of course but none out on show, I think I get that from my mum. I have one photo of my gran and a small one of my DS and his lovely wife on their wedding day and that's all. I'm glad that I'm that way as I didn't have any of the few photo's we have of our little gs out so didn't have to face the dilemma of whether or not to put them away.

Your sons sound very loving and thoughtful Eliana and perhaps they don't realise how much it hurts you to see nothing of your grand daughters so it might be an idea to talk to them about it. I know a lot of advice is given about tongue biting, but if you can't be open and honest with your own children, who can you be that way with.

We've had some very difficult, harsh and upsetting conversations with our DS about his brother (always instigated by him) and there was a time when I was afraid to be honest in case we lost him too but we cannot pretend that the feelings of anger, betrayal and heart break aren't there. We are pleased that he's retained his relationship with his brother and nephew and by the end of the year he'll have another little niece or nephew to love. I've told him that he has them and he has us but needs to keep the two separate.

I think you're right Celebgran when Yogagirl's new grand daughter arrives it will be bitter sweet but such a wonderful time too. Gosh Yogagirl I can't wait to see your post when you've held her for the first time.

I never thought like that when expecting Tor.

Glad you knew what I meant yogagirl in our case the photos are so old now over 6 years but if I think put them away it makes me sad like I was never a Grandma!

Sometimes being with Monika and Danika makes Me sad for my own daughter and gets daughter but it does t last and. I love them dearly.

I reckon it will bring back bittersweet. Memories yogagirl but it will be so so lovely too xx

Evening Celebgran don't worry I know you didn't mean anything. It's like when I had my first child (ND) and was expecting my second, I was really worried as I thought I couldn't possible have more love to give as I loved my first D so very much, but then when the second & the third came along I found even more love for them without taking any from the first, I was amazed. So same with GC you just keep finding more & more love for them all!
I do worry that with the new baby it might have the opposite effect in making me miss Laila even more! It was on the FB forum where everyone agreed it's best to take down the pictures and that it made them feel better, without the constant reminder all the time. I do still have a little pic of them both on my bedroom bookcase, very cute! and a long collage of them as babies and Laila b/day with me too, which hangs a bit higher in the hallway, above where the other bigger one hung that I took down and then one of each of them with me on the sideboard in the dinning room but behind a fern plant, so none of them are right in my face like the other two were. God I ddo waffle!
Sleep well everyone, even though it's soooooo hot!

I totally understand that yogagirl sorry I didn't mean. To imply otherwise brain overheated today what I clumsily message t to say was that a new Gra daughter will fill your heart with joy and maybe lessen your Pain I do hope so.

Nothing or none will take our pain and loss away for your Laila and jack and my mollie and Daisy and Lola who never seen. Not a day passes for me without that sick pain inside some daysn better than others.

I can't bear the pain of seeing photos of Tor nor can graham strange isn't it or maybe not considering her vendetta of hate against us.