Not the only opticians out there!

That was four years ago, Crun. Is there anything more up to date.
A lot has changed since then.

Bags, any business can sign up to this.

www.fairtaxmark.net/

Most of them do not because they see shareholders and offshore tax havens being more important than the common good.
That is the salient point as far as I am concerned.

Thanks for that info, crun.

I want tax laws to be improved too, dj. I'm surprised you had to ask. The point is only that the political pressure gj mentions needs to be on the government, not the businesses. It's not the fault of the businesses that they don't pay more tax–they pay what they have to pay, same as you and me–but of the politicians. That's all I'm saying and it remains, as far as I can see, the salient point.

I expect it's one of the reasons lots of people support Corbyn. I'll be interested to hear how he intends to go about it in due course.

Have a look at the work of Prof. Mildred Warner at Cornell. People love to cherry pick cases to support their own pet point of view when it comes to public vs private, but Warner has done a systematic review extending to tens of thousands of utilities in hundreds of countries. Her verdict? No net difference between public and private, either way.

Indeed gillybob, this is so unfair for small businesses for you. Which is why I personally believe we should do everything we can, by putting political pressure on big businesses that do not pay fair tax, and vote with our feet and mainly, purse or card- to pay fair taxes. I just cannot fathom why this is deemed to be on 'high horse' and/or giving lessons on 'morality'- There are plenty of other businesses we can buy presents for family on line other than Amazon too!

And don't get me started on Non Doms- who dodge tax in massive amounts year after year- some having lived in the UK for 10, 20, 30 or more years. They don't take their accountants out for dinner- they go to the Bahamas or other very posh locations for weeks at a time- all paid for- to stitch the system (eg US- our education, NHS and social services and more) up! Talking about billions here too!

www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2015/10/01/of-tax-havens-tax-evasion-and-desperate-prime-ministers/

This government is supported by companies which flout the tax laws and pay their accountants to find loopholes to do so.
I want tax laws to be improved which is why I support Corbyn.
What do you want in the future, bags?
It's what happens from now on that matters.
Cameron and Osborne said they would stop tax evasion, but they have now gone back on their promise.
Corbyn will not, with the help of Richard Murphy of Tax Research.
Do you actually want things to stay as they are, with big companies not doing country by country reporting and not paying the taxes in the country where the transactions take place?
I repeat, what do you want to happen?

It's surely not the fault of a business for not paying what "we" deem to be fair taxes but the fault of the system that allows it. Running a micro business myself I can honestly say that I would happily take advantage of any tax break offered ( sadly there are none) which would enable me to invest in the business itself. I do think it's very unfair that I am forced to pay corporation tax on my very small profit when we are in desperate need of new machines/ equipment we cannot afford to buy when big businesses and rich individuals take the tax man out to dinner negotiate the amount of tax they are prepared to pay.

And of course it makes no sense to be anti-business. But I am pro FAIR business- those that pay fair wages and pay fair taxes.

gj, and others, you are failing to understand the salient point: Specsavers, Starbucks, etc are paying tax as they should, i.e. what the law says they must pay. It is tax law that is at fault for not making them pay more than they do and that is not the fault of anyone but our politicians.

Point taken thatbags- and yet! Why should I go to Starbucks and drink their coffee (crappy anahow, but that is besides the point) and eat their dried up industrial cakes- knowing they will not pay FAIR tax- when I can go to the small independent Café around the corner and have delicious coffee and fresh home made cake (I know this is irrelevant too, re tax)- and know that they have NO choice but to pay tax at much higher rate. I'll support them all the way everytime. It is so unfair that small businesses have to pay full tax and large ones get away with not.

We can vote with our feet, and put pressure on those businesses- if the government won't- and it HAS A HUGE EFFECT on the attitude of those businesses when they see their profits go down the pan.

It's rather foolish to be "anti-business" as without private businesses the would be no NHS at all. It should also be remembered that whilst we may not be happy with the level of tax paid by some large organizations, the staff working within them are subject to the same PAYE rules as the rest of us.

Business responsibilities are their customers and their shareholders.

Government responsibilities are national services such as the NHS.

The short answer, dj, is yes, you are right, but have you asked WHY?

Because if you did ask why, you'd blame law makers not businesses who simply have to abide by the laws there are. They have no responsibility towards laws some of us might like there to be.

Given that Labour, when in power, didn't change the laws either, I'm left wondering if there are some national advantages in bad tax law or whether it is just all shades government head in the sand syndrome.

Yes, dj. But that is the government's fault, not the companies. THAT is the salient point but people keep criticising the companies as if they made the law of the land. The responsibility to change stupid laws lies with government. I should have thought at least you would understand that but you are so busy being anti private company that you have apparently forgotten the source of the problem: bad tax law.

The salient point, bags, is that every time a private company takes a contract with the NHS, money leaves the NHS in the form of profit for that company, instead of being recycled within the NHS.
We also lose VAT as a private company is allowed to claim it back,but the NHS is not.

www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2015/10/01/osbornes-crack-down-on-non-doms-is-a-sham/

www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2015/10/01/will-osborne-go-for-the-tax-gap/

Unfortunately, this government says one thing and does another on tax.

gj, and others, you are failing to understand the salient point: Specsavers, Starbucks, etc are paying tax as they should, i.e. what the law says they must pay. It is tax law that is at fault for not making them pay more than they do and that is not the fault of anyone but our politicians.

"Specsavers is based in Guernsey and pays corporation tax there, but profits made in the UK are taxed in the UK. "We have long conversations with tax authorities. They have to come and see that we are actually working in Guernsey and not just a plate on the door. But we have a massive office there, are the biggest employer. I think we worked out last year that we paid several hundred million in tax to the UK Treasury. I think they were a bit surprised about that."

Mary Perkins, www.theguardian.com/business/2009/oct/01/specsavers-mary-perkins-opticians

Also:-
" . . . operating joint ventures with the opticians . . . . . based in their own shops and own half the business. The optician keeps the profits from the store and Specsavers takes a management fee for marketing, shop fittings, auditing, training, and other support"

If Specsavers to not pay taxes as they should, like Starbucks, Amazon and co- then it is totally out of order- and I do hope this tax evasion for big corps will soon be dealt with. A totally different issue though.

I must admit, that although I am pleased to recieve free hearing aids, I would have been happy to pay something as we do for glasses and dental treatment, my glasses are more of a necessity to me than hearing aids, and yet cost me over £300, even with the cheapest frames as I have to have thinned down lenses not just for the way they look, but the weight of the jam jar bottom type lenses is intolerable. It seems logical to me to treat hearing aid providers in the same way as dentists and opticians.

Another thought, nothing we receive on the NHS of course is free, we have all paid N.I.throughout our working lives.

That's interesting Gillybob, at our hospital ENT/Audiology department there are big posters all over the waiting area saying that the charge for a replacement damaged or lost hearing aid is £75.
Is this MKH being enterprising or have things changed. Perhaps patients on e.g benefits, pension credit etc are exempt?
I know I was quick off the mark when DH's hearing aid which was removed when he had his MRI scan after his stroke "disappeared" as the department did not send it back with him to the ward. They returned it with sincere apologies!

Gilly Most opticians will take old specs and pass them on to somewhere they can be used - Specsavers do.

My sister works in a large audiology department in a hospital (clerical). She tells me that there are a lot of old people who believe that the hearing aids they are given (for free) are actually free. Astonishingly they have a lot of "patients" who go through over 5 hearing aids a year and one or two who lose them almost every other week. On average they cost £70-100 at time and that is just for the actual aid itself and doesnt take into account audiology time/moulding etc.

At present they are not allowed to charge for losses but I can't help but wonder if you had to pay for something if you lost it, you might actually take more care of it. I appreciate that there will always be genuine cases but this is just one hospital.

On a totally separate note, does anyone know if there is a charitry who takes used spectacles? I have about 8 pairs (belonging to my late grandma) all in very good condition. Thanks.