school rules gone mad

I know schools stand in loco parentis but how far do we want that to extend?
We can't have it all ways. Just a thought

Anyone having a hypo is a scary thing. Having been married to a type 1 diabetic whilst I was teaching did actually come in handy, as I could recognise a hypo and correct if necessary. I always had glucose tablets in my bag. Other teachers knew. If there was a diabetic, he or she would often have a bottle of Lucozade to hand to the teacher.

Even as far back as the 50s there were diabetics in normal schools. They survived. The difference now is, as GT says, the number of injections. It's to do with keeping tighter control of diabetes. It always used to be that the diabetic had to have an injection 20 minutes before a meal. With the different types of insulin now, it is possible to have an injection with the meal or even after the meal, so the timing is not so strict.

It's not just a problem in schools. It's also a problem in nursing homes. I know of homes where there is only one member of staff who can give injections. If that member is not there, a district nurse has to be called in. That must be wrong. There should be a trained member of staff on duty at all times, considering the increase in diabetes in older people.

I am not saying this should not happen in school but is it really the role of the teacher? We already have pupils/students and parents who feel that teachers are there to provide qualifications for the child now some are saying they must provide nursing care too.

Teachers are there to provide an education; anything else will need to be set up and controlled and may need other staff to do these things and will certainly need the input of both child and parent. Other staff may mean costs to the school which has to be sorted out. Preparation means checking out with the appropriate body that everything is done to safeguard all the children.

I cannot see what this school has done wrong other than insist the child stays safe while they ensure everything is right for them at school.

As I say, those shouting that this should be an automatic and instant right for the child would soon shout if anything went wrong.

Not the answer for everyone, I know, just how one particular family coped.

Just asked a friend of mine how her daughter (now adult, diagnosed type 1 aged 4) managed her insulin at primary school. She came home for lunch which solved any problem.

No - some will be on two injections, before and after school and some ( very few I think) on a pump. Others on 4 a day of which three are before meals so one before lunch. Staff will need to be very aware though regardless - able to do finger tip testing, looking out for signs of hypo, checking what child is eating ( the two injection regime means similar amount of carbs at each meal)

Do all diabetic children of primary school age need an injection during school hours?

Goodness - I do think the rectal Valium was a step too far. However, that aside, we should get this all back into proportion. There are thousands of primary schools managing perfectly fine in helping young children with insulin injections. By the time they get to secondary school ( if not before) the children are doing their own injections. I coukd see an argument for secondary schools needing a health care assistant type post but primary schools I am sure can cope with the right attitude otherwise no primary school age children with diabetes would go to school!

It's a huge responsibility to place on non medically trained staff. DD was working as school administrator some years ago, and having undertaken the requisite course she became one of the school's first aiders. This was fine as far as it went-plasters, paracetamol, odd sprained ankle, sending squeamish pupils home etc., but the role gradually changed to include duties more appropriate to a school nurse. She was expected to deal with administering Ritalin amongst other medications, but what finished it for her was being asked to administer rectal Valium to one particular pupil-a strapping lad of 14. She resigned as a first aider at that point. She felt uncomfortable-not to say afraid-of taking on these responsibilities with the bare minimum of medical knowledge. Her words were "what if I get something wrong?" It's all very well being covered by insurance but if a mistake is made can you imagine how the staff member involved would feel?

All my dc and DIL work as senior school teachers or in educational MIS. It's not so simple to organise these things as you might expect. I'm not commenting on the OP as I don't know the full facts of their case, but there are always two sides to every story.

Insurance companies need to be notified of any changes, regardless of policies vampirequeen. (Just as your home insurance company would require you to tell them of any changes) Nor does there have to be negligence for a claim to go through. The school are responsible for anything that happens whilst the child is in their care or anything that happens on school premises. Maybe this school has suffered with parents claiming in the past and is being very careful.

I think Anya has given a detailed and obviously knowledgeable explanation of what has to happen for this child to be properly cared for.

I have a strong feeling, having read this thread, that I could easily name those who would be up in arms if, in another school, this careful approach to a non-teaching issue was ignored and something went wrong. There is a strong flavour of "I know my rights" going on.

I also wonder what the OP's DD's relationship is with the school currently. That may have had some bearing on them ensuring they had covered all the bases.

If there is a care plan in place and it was followed then there is no negligence and therefore no liability.

Of course it's the same 'sort of thing'. If something went wrong, because safeguarding policies were not sufficiently stringent, then the school would be liable.

I'm not sure this is the same sort of thing. A school has to be inclusive and should have systems in place to deal with this sort of eventuality.

Even if the Diabetes team have done their training and 2 members of staff have volunteered to help the school will still need to check that they are fully covered as far as insurance goes. This is the unfortunate effect of the litigation culture that now exists. I have known schools have to pay substantial sums for accidents on school premises, some of which might have been considered the fault of the parents-toddler climbs and falls in school yard, before the school is even open- the school still had to pay. It is awful, but it is the world we now live in.

Has your DD been told about Diabetes UK? Their website has a very detailed and helpful section on children and schools and all the legal framework. They also run a Care in schools helpline . Although a diagnosis of a type 1 in a young child is very frightening, the support services available, like DUK are amazing. They will offer help, information and support as your family embark on this life long journey. Mumsnet almost certainly have a thread on this as well and again this will contain posts with up to date advice and experience.

It could be that what the child requires is different from usual, or it could be that the school admin does not think all the necessary safeguards are already in place for one reason or another. We don't know.

I wondered about that too bags

For the school to be seeking legal advice, there must be something about this particular case that is different from usual.

Keep your hair on DJ. As I said earlier I must have missed that fact that this school already has all that in place. It came across from the OP that this school didn't have this system already set up or a policy in place. Why else would they seek legal advice? But VQ tells us this is not the case.

I don't know why all this anger came my way, when I said I have every sympathy with the family, but tried to put the school's position across too

There was an article in the Sunday Express about diabetes today. It quoted the case of a seven year old girl who was diagnosed when she was three. Several teachers at her school have been taught to give the injections if necessary and she is used to testing her glucose levels before eating or doing sports. It all seems to work very smoothly.

Anya..schools have all the things you mentioned in place.

There will a be method of record keeping in place.
There will be a safe place to store the insulin.
The key will be on a key hook in the key box.
The child will be able to receive his injection away from prying eyes.
Staff will be aware of the changes in behaviour, colour etc that show that insulin or sugar is needed. The diabetic children I worked with had an emergency pack containing a few biscuits and a sugary drink that could be given if necessary.
Information will be passed to instructors on a need to know basis. Supply teachers will be informed.

The SENCO will have discussed the child's needs with the diabetic nurse and will have been given a care plan. This plan will be available to all staff members.

In my career I worked with children with a variety of medical needs including diabetes, cystic fibrosis, muscular dystrophy and cerebral palsy. Each child's needs were met and all took part in internal and external activities. Schools are inclusive and as such are quite able to meet these needs.

Fingers crossed common sense prevails nanamacatj !

Many thanks all of you for all your comments and kind thoughts. I've been off line for a while due to laptop dying. Today I have looked after GS all day while Mum and Dad at work, along with his 3 siblings. My worst moment was when I pressed the sharps bin lid closed then realised its permanently sealed. GS is getting more confident with his bloods and pen injections and treats the dosage calculations as extra maths lessons. School is closed for half term holidays next week so I guess we will have to wait a little longer for their answer, they recently changed from local authority to academy after two years in special measures so a lot of changes for all concerned....here's hoping!!! Off for a small glass of something cold, then doing it all again tomorrow. Nite all.

The diabetic child I mentioned up thread had to wear a special chest harness because of his condition. I presume it was because of the severity and complicatedness of his illness. I'm wondering now if the conditioon of the child mentioned in the OP is more complicated than usual and that's why there is hesitation from the school.

Also, we don't actually know all the facts of the case so we can hardly jump to perfect conclusions about what should and can be done.