B****y dogs

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(Sorry - just catching up - iPad got stuck on page four!)

I don't think MamaCaz's neighbours are fit to live in a community with human beings by the sound of it! We live in a crowded little country so consideration is needed from everyone. Not just dog owners.

We were in a country churchyard last week looking round and two very large labradors came bounding up to my dog who was quite terrified; the owner wasn't around but someone else who seemed to know them half heartedly called them off [they kept returning, though]. They weren't nasty dogs, but they were big and we were a bit scared ourselves. I can't imagine how I would have felt if I had a child with me and that had happened. Again it was the owner, not the dogs at fault [they were just being dogs].

I can't imagine not having a dog in my life. They never judge, they are always pleased to see you and it takes so little to make them happy.

Altogether a big improvement on judgemental, miserable, demanding humans

That's a pity luckygirl. I'm sorry to hear about your experience with dogs and your resultant feelings about them. You are perfectly entitled to feel like that and I don't think we can expect to change them by trotting out other peoples views on dogs. You don't like them? Fair enough!

You are right that I do not understand this relationship - but a lot depends on what your experiences have been. Mine have been all bad I'm sorry to say; and not getting any better!

My working collie lived on for several years after she retired, she always lived in the house. Even when she retired she was still of the boss of the other two "pet" dogs. She was a very special dog, my constant companion and my best friend. I'm very offended that people think that working dogs are treated as commodities, they just do not understand the relationship between dog and human

Responsible owners of working dogs will keep them or re-home them, not kill them. The farmers in my family, and others I know, retire their dogs and care for them properly. My farmer cousin has two 14 year old collies that like to lie outdoors in the daytime and come in at night. The final useful job a working sheepdog can do is show the next pup how to do its work. How sad that uncaring people are capable of killing their dogs.

When I was young friends and family had dogs but they did not live in the house, all had kennels in the garden. Now it is usual to pamper them like babies, one neighbour would not allow her children on the cream sofa but the dogs used to lie there.
I have no problem with working dogs, they do a valuable job, but hate to see those little dogs carried around in handbags.

It is interesting that the farmers round here treat their dogs in a very different way from many other people - they are part of the working team, but not part of their home - they sleep outside and are got rid of when they lose their usefulness.

I do not designate the views of dog lovers as "misinformed ramblings" - but respect their views. I just do not share them; and have very good reason not to!

Not usually, Tegan. They're more likely to be found trying to shelter and whimpering for help. Our local dog rescue (Dogs4Rescue) brings in dogs who have been hurt (shot or run over) on the streets in Romania and they are usually alone and frightened, yet will still trust humans to help them. Dogs in groups play together and enjoy a bit of rough and tumble but tend to gravitate to humans when they're in distress.

I would imgine that [unlike cats] their first instinct would be to find other dogs and form a pack and a pecking order.

I can't imagine my dog coping with outside living, let alone fending for herself if she is not fed. Wolves will hunt and use aggression to survive - my basset hound doesn't like walking in the rain and if hungry she would sit and cry plaintively till a human came along to rescue her. Her default position is domestication and dependence on humans. It would be interesting to observe domestic dogs in a wild setting to demonstrate just how different they are from wolves, dingoes, hyenas and all those wild animals that the uninformed claim domestic dogs really are. Just because they look a bit like them, doesn't mean they are the same.

One of the biggest disasters for dogs in general was when they started to become fashion accessories, because dogs are now bought for their looks rather than their suitablilty for the needs of that particular owner. A good dog breeder will never sell a pup to someone not suitable as an owner for that type of dog . I'm on my fifth dog now and must admit that I'm still learning about them [and making mistakes].

Or my cats that they're supposed to be wild things. I'd have to wake them up to tell them! But don't lets argue. Some people shouldn't have dogs as they themselves are either unable to control them or to be sufficiently social animals themselves to see that not everyone loves or even likes dogs or understand the need to keep them away from non dog lovers or small children. I think all us Grans agree on this or at least I hope they do!

Luckygirl I remember you as a dog hater. And your post confirms that you have no understanding of the unique relationship that has existed for thousands of years between humans and dogs.

I'd like to hear you repeat your misinformed ramblings to shepherds, the blind, the police, mountain rescue teams, customs, etc and others who know the value of this most domesticated of all animals.

You'd get short shift from any of these.

Try telling my dogs they're not meant to live in the house

We'll have to agree to disagree, Luckygirl. Tens of thousands of years ago, a variant of the grey wolf developed/evolved that learned to scavenge around humans and become sociable, helping humans and receiving food and shelter in return. They now bear no resemblance to wild animals, nor to wolves, and are domestic dogs in their own right, with great variation. Training has to be done in a way that allows a dog to be itself and fit in with humans, in the same way that we have to be socialised in order to comply with society. More is being understood about dog behaviour and regarding them as pack animals that have a pecking order like wolves does not apply to domestic dogs. Dog-lovers who study and understand canine behaviour are not misguided people who are trying to fit a round peg into a square hole - most sensible, responsible dog-lovers appreciate the dogginess of their companions, as do their dogs appreciate the humanity of the people they live with. A truly wild dog would disappear at the first opportunity as soon as it was let off the lead, not wait patiently on the doorstep till the human got back home. Animals evolve - we don't bear any resemblance to the first humans and dogs aren't wolves.

Are cats domesticated? They just grab food where it is on offer - and even if it isn't they hunt, which is what they were meant to do.

I saw a little girl yesterday (aged about 11) taking one of those huge mastiff type dogs for a walk. I worried for the child. The dog had big powerful jaws and if it decided to 'turn' the child, and anyone else around would have had no chance.

Well they have had millenia to domestic them as have cats luckygirl - and we've mostly stopped living in caves.

"through"

As a dog-hater, even I do not blame the dogs. They are not naturally adapted to living in a human civilisation, and it is entirely the fault of humans that there is this obsession with trying to make them do it.

It is just a power trip. I watched a woman in the street yesterday - her dog was leaping about and she eventually succeeded in making him sit. The look of satisfaction on her face and the look of total dejection in the dog's body language said it all - she had enjoyed wielding the power and he had suffered though his natural instincts being thwarted.

Without human intervention this dog would probably not even have existed - it was one of those inbred artefacts that bore some resemblance to a dog.

Al the dog owners who emphasis the need for training are missing the point - the dog is in the wrong place to start with. Dogs are not meant to live in houses.

You are perfectly entitled to a rant. What a rotten situation!