Out of control Children/Parents

I've been to a couple of gastro pubs that ban children after 8 pm. I'm all for that.
I couldn't agree more that it's down to parents. My DC knew and now DGC know that they don't leave the table in a café or restaurant because they don't do it at home ! I've been visiting friends and been horrified at the way the children are allowed to "play and graze" i.e. not sitting at the table but taking food and eating whilst still playing. If they're not taught to sit at a table at home what chance is there of them sitting nicely when eating out. DGC always have something with them to keep them occupied. Yes they can get fidgety and moany after an hour or so but are never a nuisance to other customers.

Children should be civilised at an early age - parents are doing them no favours by letting them run wild. I am not surprised that there are so many with 'attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder'; there will always be some with genuine problems, but mostly it's because they have never been encouraged to stop, look and listen. They will not learn self-discipline if they are never disciplined.

Consideration for other people appears to be unfashionable now.

I don't think I've ever seen any of these little kids running wild in cafes. Alright, occasionally one might trot around - seeing how far they can get from mum before she runs after them - but no really bad behaviour. In my experience they are too busy stuffing chocolate cake eating their food. Messily. But that's ok.

M&S cafés are bad at after wiping tables where there have been messy eaters they ignore the floor and you can sit down not realising you are treading in a mulch of cake crumbs. notalwaysthechildrenwhoaremessyeaters

I agree that it's the parents at fault, not the children.
DH and I went out for dinner to a 'posh' restaurant recently at about 8.30pm. A boy of about 7/8 years old decided he would crawl round the floor, UNDER the tables, while his mum and dad had a lovely, quiet, romantic time, gazing into each other's eyes!!! Eventually a waiter escorted him back to his parents who didn't bat an eyelid. Grrr.

I totally disagree with little ones running around in cafes and restaurants and truly don't care if that labels me a grumpy old woman!

We have four grandchildren and take them out to eat often in cafes, restaurants and even places with table clothes ;-) we apply the same rules as we did with our daughters. They have to sit at the table , no ifs or buts . To facilitate that Nana has a 'Mary poppins' bag inside of which is all manner of treasure ( for treasure read junk if you are over 10)!

I don't expect them to sit and be seen or not heard, quite the opposite I want to encourage them to take full part of the experience. Each orders for themselves ( even the 3 year old) . The rule is that it can be off any menu but what is chosen must be eaten. If they want to 'try' something , good old Grampy is a good sport and it orders it and they share.

We chat about life, school, home and Pretty much anything that interests them. They have to use 'indoor voices' but obviously there is a lot of laughter. As they get older we explain why we don't run around, for safety and because this might be a special treat for someone , who maybe saved up for it, so it's up to us that it's not spoiled by shouting or bumping into them or the servers.

I don't think it's too much to ask of any child. We all went to TGIs for a birthday lunch for the 6 year old a couple of weeks ago and all 4 children lasted 2 hours at the table, even the baby who is 18 months old. New technology is great too and there was a selection of tablets, iPads and such which kids and adults alike had fun with.

I am determined that our little ones will be welcome in any eatery, good manners cost nothing:-)

NanaandGrampy I'm with you all the way. When I wash DGS and see the scarring he got whilst sitting at a table where other children were running round and bumping into people with hot drinks, it reminds me of the weeks of pain for him and anguish for his family. Tablets and mobile phones, colouring and reading are all ways to keep children occupied if parents can't control their offspring. I sat open mouthed as one mother, when asked politely by a member of staff to make her children sit down, responded, " You ought to have a play area here then!" Having said that, there are lots of well behaved children so congratulations to them and their parents.

Have I lived a sheltered life? I have come across badly-behaved kids, of course I have, but I can't remember the last time I was in a cafe or restaurant and was actually bothered by children running about - is this a common occurence? My little grandson is fine in a cafe, though we don't let him run around, and nor do we expect him to sit for ages and ages, either. We'll walk round with him for a little bit (not approaching other people - not everyone thinks toddlers are wonderful).

I do remember once when my own children were small, and we had a pub lunch, the middle one (aged about 6) took the huff about something and ended up sitting on the floor under the table. He didn't bother anyone else, and we just ignored him until he got out of his bad mood

I just don't see these awful kids with nappies which need changing spilling sugar all over the floor - am I just not observant or is Janet SP exaggerating?

elena - thank you for your post. I suspect we've lived similarly sheltered lives. Only once in recent memory have I seen and heard a little boy screeching in the supermarket. Poor little chap was exhausted. Mum and grannie were hopeless and finally took him out of the trolley whilst they packed and paid. Of course, he immediately ran to the trolley parks and crawled under there, banging his head when he stood up. Queue more screaming. Sadly, the response we inevitably, shut up x, no chocolate for you. This was about 6 pm when most toddlers are tired, ready for tea, bath and bed.
But - that is the only incident I can recall over recent years, never mind months. I don't live in a wealthy middle class area, surrounded by children called Tarquin either, in case any one wonders.

Jingle - once again, I find myself agreeing with your comments. I'll stop there

No, I don't think Janet S-P is exaggerating. I don't tend to frequent many of the places that she may go to (not being in London) but even so, in the depths of shires, I have experienced that sometimes.

The saddest thing I saw was at a NT place we went to for lunch. A child aged about six was sitting with her parents - they totally ignored her - she wasn't badly behaved, she sat still and tried to chat to her parents but they gave monosyllabic answers and went back to their iphones.
I noticed particularly because the staff forgot to bring our lunch and we waited for about 40 minutes (bored stiff) until I eventually went to see what was happening (they had forgotten our order), so I had spent the time 'people watching'.

At the moment there are Christmas trees and decorations all around - DGD asked very nicely if she could get down from the table and go and look at the Christmas tree. I don't think anyone minded, other customers were smiling indulgently as she was very good. She is just 4.

A child nearly bumped into me the other day in a shop. The child (aged about 8) stopped still and apologised. She hadn't bumped into me and I must admit I was surprised - and pleased - because it does seem so unusual these days. I did say 'thank you, that's OK' trying to be a nice old biddy, not a GOW!

It's not just the Tarquins who do it. It's the ones with the mothers who look as if they will thump you if you say anything!

I do think that some of the big chains have bent over so far backwards to be 'family friendly' that some people have come to expect play facilities in all eating places, and can get quite miffed if there are none.

We really enjoy eating out with our family. Oldest GS has been doing this since under 1 (he's 7 now). This is how children learn an important and enjoyable social skill, but the most important element is the adult supervision and example. Also pick your venue carefully.

The most important element, in my humble opinion, is a screen. Keeps 'em quiet like nothing else.

Wouldn't be interested in dining with JS-P, though that's not likely to happen.

We were recently eating at a Beefeater restaurant with friends ,and it is a fact that we don't eat out much due to DH's Alzheimer's and it was about 7:30pm.At the next table were two parents with children approx 4&6 they couldn't sit for 5mins they raced round and the mum after screaming at them to sit down yelled at dad that she couldn't cope and she wouldn't put up with it all. I wanted to agree with her so much.There was food on the table and on the floor, it really ruined our meal and our evening out. I felt the staff should have intervened but perhaps that is too much to expect.

I don't think they should have a screen when in a restaurant. Parents need to talk to them, include them in the conversation. I would ban all screens when eating- including at home.

annsixty if the staff had intervened, you can bet your life it would not have gone down well with either parent...

A lot of family friendly restaurants give children colouring pencils and a paper place mat to colour in.
Sensible parents take a bag of kit in which they put age appropriate stuff with which to entertain their children. I just remembered that mine probably first learned learned to colour in quietly at Church on Sunday morning. My grandsons would sit with those transformer things, building creatures, colour in or read - yes they'd join in the conversation whilst eating but children need to be focussed on something interesting or they may well whinge or worse.

NanandGrampy,you are spot on,Sadly the parents of badly behaved kids won't agree,mainly because to admit something is wrong means you have to put it right,and they can't or won't do that.
I can't stand that awful J,S,Porter.But I find most kids are fine,it's only the odd few.We had one little dear,grrr! She kept throwing the tray up in the air and delighting in the clatter it made as it landed.

Off topic but related to my post,it was a Sunday evening when we were in the Beefeater and a little girl wandered through the restaurant in a pretty long dress with a coloured sash. Later a bride suddenly appeared in a very elaborate strapless wedding dress,she was neither young nor sylphlike, but looked very nice. I asked one of the staff if they had had a wedding party but he said ,no, they had just come to stay the night in the attached Premier Inn. I just thought it was rather odd not to have changed before travelling or even to come down for a meal, also do weddings take place on Sunday? She may have worn it all weekend.

Totally agree with Leticia about no tablets at the table. Converse with the children no matter what age they are. That's just plain good manners.

Yes annsixty weddings take place on Sunday. DS was married on a Sunday during the August bank holiday weekend.

Screens are good when you have to wait a long time for the food. Not whilst eating of course!

in one of our local places...they keep an area separate for families with young children,there is a small play area and the mums can keep an eye on their offspring, there are no children allowed past a certain point in the restaurant where adult diners eat.