Out of control Children/Parents

A child nearly bumped into me the other day in a shop. The child (aged about 8) stopped still and apologised. She hadn't bumped into me and I must admit I was surprised - and pleased - because it does seem so unusual these days. I did say 'thank you, that's OK' trying to be a nice old biddy, not a GOW!

It's not just the Tarquins who do it. It's the ones with the mothers who look as if they will thump you if you say anything!

No, I don't think Janet S-P is exaggerating. I don't tend to frequent many of the places that she may go to (not being in London) but even so, in the depths of shires, I have experienced that sometimes.

The saddest thing I saw was at a NT place we went to for lunch. A child aged about six was sitting with her parents - they totally ignored her - she wasn't badly behaved, she sat still and tried to chat to her parents but they gave monosyllabic answers and went back to their iphones.
I noticed particularly because the staff forgot to bring our lunch and we waited for about 40 minutes (bored stiff) until I eventually went to see what was happening (they had forgotten our order), so I had spent the time 'people watching'.

At the moment there are Christmas trees and decorations all around - DGD asked very nicely if she could get down from the table and go and look at the Christmas tree. I don't think anyone minded, other customers were smiling indulgently as she was very good. She is just 4.

elena - thank you for your post. I suspect we've lived similarly sheltered lives. Only once in recent memory have I seen and heard a little boy screeching in the supermarket. Poor little chap was exhausted. Mum and grannie were hopeless and finally took him out of the trolley whilst they packed and paid. Of course, he immediately ran to the trolley parks and crawled under there, banging his head when he stood up. Queue more screaming. Sadly, the response we inevitably, shut up x, no chocolate for you. This was about 6 pm when most toddlers are tired, ready for tea, bath and bed.
But - that is the only incident I can recall over recent years, never mind months. I don't live in a wealthy middle class area, surrounded by children called Tarquin either, in case any one wonders.

Jingle - once again, I find myself agreeing with your comments. I'll stop there

Have I lived a sheltered life? I have come across badly-behaved kids, of course I have, but I can't remember the last time I was in a cafe or restaurant and was actually bothered by children running about - is this a common occurence? My little grandson is fine in a cafe, though we don't let him run around, and nor do we expect him to sit for ages and ages, either. We'll walk round with him for a little bit (not approaching other people - not everyone thinks toddlers are wonderful).

I do remember once when my own children were small, and we had a pub lunch, the middle one (aged about 6) took the huff about something and ended up sitting on the floor under the table. He didn't bother anyone else, and we just ignored him until he got out of his bad mood

I just don't see these awful kids with nappies which need changing spilling sugar all over the floor - am I just not observant or is Janet SP exaggerating?

NanaandGrampy I'm with you all the way. When I wash DGS and see the scarring he got whilst sitting at a table where other children were running round and bumping into people with hot drinks, it reminds me of the weeks of pain for him and anguish for his family. Tablets and mobile phones, colouring and reading are all ways to keep children occupied if parents can't control their offspring. I sat open mouthed as one mother, when asked politely by a member of staff to make her children sit down, responded, " You ought to have a play area here then!" Having said that, there are lots of well behaved children so congratulations to them and their parents.

I totally disagree with little ones running around in cafes and restaurants and truly don't care if that labels me a grumpy old woman!

We have four grandchildren and take them out to eat often in cafes, restaurants and even places with table clothes ;-) we apply the same rules as we did with our daughters. They have to sit at the table , no ifs or buts . To facilitate that Nana has a 'Mary poppins' bag inside of which is all manner of treasure ( for treasure read junk if you are over 10)!

I don't expect them to sit and be seen or not heard, quite the opposite I want to encourage them to take full part of the experience. Each orders for themselves ( even the 3 year old) . The rule is that it can be off any menu but what is chosen must be eaten. If they want to 'try' something , good old Grampy is a good sport and it orders it and they share.

We chat about life, school, home and Pretty much anything that interests them. They have to use 'indoor voices' but obviously there is a lot of laughter. As they get older we explain why we don't run around, for safety and because this might be a special treat for someone , who maybe saved up for it, so it's up to us that it's not spoiled by shouting or bumping into them or the servers.

I don't think it's too much to ask of any child. We all went to TGIs for a birthday lunch for the 6 year old a couple of weeks ago and all 4 children lasted 2 hours at the table, even the baby who is 18 months old. New technology is great too and there was a selection of tablets, iPads and such which kids and adults alike had fun with.

I am determined that our little ones will be welcome in any eatery, good manners cost nothing:-)

I agree that it's the parents at fault, not the children.
DH and I went out for dinner to a 'posh' restaurant recently at about 8.30pm. A boy of about 7/8 years old decided he would crawl round the floor, UNDER the tables, while his mum and dad had a lovely, quiet, romantic time, gazing into each other's eyes!!! Eventually a waiter escorted him back to his parents who didn't bat an eyelid. Grrr.

M&S cafés are bad at after wiping tables where there have been messy eaters they ignore the floor and you can sit down not realising you are treading in a mulch of cake crumbs. notalwaysthechildrenwhoaremessyeaters

I don't think I've ever seen any of these little kids running wild in cafes. Alright, occasionally one might trot around - seeing how far they can get from mum before she runs after them - but no really bad behaviour. In my experience they are too busy stuffing chocolate cake eating their food. Messily. But that's ok.

Children should be civilised at an early age - parents are doing them no favours by letting them run wild. I am not surprised that there are so many with 'attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder'; there will always be some with genuine problems, but mostly it's because they have never been encouraged to stop, look and listen. They will not learn self-discipline if they are never disciplined.

Consideration for other people appears to be unfashionable now.

I've been to a couple of gastro pubs that ban children after 8 pm. I'm all for that.
I couldn't agree more that it's down to parents. My DC knew and now DGC know that they don't leave the table in a café or restaurant because they don't do it at home ! I've been visiting friends and been horrified at the way the children are allowed to "play and graze" i.e. not sitting at the table but taking food and eating whilst still playing. If they're not taught to sit at a table at home what chance is there of them sitting nicely when eating out. DGC always have something with them to keep them occupied. Yes they can get fidgety and moany after an hour or so but are never a nuisance to other customers.

Children in supermarkets - that hit a nerve!
I can't stand to see children standing or sitting in trolleys in the part where we put the food. Trolleys have seats at the front for children (some even have little cars with trolleys attached!).

Parents allowing children to sit in the trolley should be told to remove them - their shoes could be covered in dirt or even dog muck. It's a health issue and I have complained to my local Tesco several times but to no avail.
Do they ever wash the trolleys? I doubt it.

JS-P - if you're reading this thread could you take up the cudgel please!!

This has driven me to post. I think children are often badly behaved and therefore mums don't want the children destroying there own houses and feel it's ok for the children to run riot in other peoples shared spaces. Having said this I have 6 grandchildren and their behaviour varies.

My pet hate is children on scooters in supermarkets, I think the managers should ban them! one day some poor old dear is going to be knocked over. My GCs are pretty good in restaurants on the whole but when they were little they could be a bit of a pain. My other bugbear is children taking train or bus seats and leaving adults standing, quite often their loving parent is also standing. I always made my lot get up and offer their seat. They could always sit on my knee.

The problem is not the children but the parents.

'My child, my rules' is part of the problem- it is only true in your own home, and when out and about they need to act appropriately for the place they are in.

On Remembrance Sunday we were in a restaurant from twelve thirty until four o'clock; eight adults a five year old and a two year old. The children had a couple of bits and bobs to occupy them and were beautifully behaved for the whole time. However, when the now five year old was about two and a half I remember taking him to a restaurant where he was behaving very badly indeed and I eventually whisked him out of there.
The problem is not with children who inevitably test boundaries as part of the learning process, but with the adults who fail to respond appropriately.

We take DGD2 to the Garden Centre - and other places - for lunch quite frequently and she mostly behaves impeccably.
I have been out with friends to a coffee shop attached to a pub and we were pleased to see that there was a whole area for mums to sit with children - there were quite a lot of toys to play with. I thought how lovely, I would have liked somewhere like that to go to when mine were small although I probably couldn't have afforded it. Anyway, even though we didn't meet in coffee shops we didn't sit isolated at home, we took it in turns to meet in one another's homes once or twice a week.

However at this coffee shop, whilst the mums sat and chatted their noisy children ran amok amongst the tables where older people were sitting and trying to have conversations and carry hot cups of coffee.

I don't want to sound smug (well yes I do!) but nearly 3 year old GS2 is a delight in cafes. It's the only way I can meet one of my friends whose DH is in a wheel chair and he is always sooo good and joins in with whatever we are eating and drinking and puts up with us talking for ages. His older brother is more problematic but can behave reasonably if well supervised.

I can't say I have ever been anywhere where children are so badly behaved- except children's playground maybe

That's weird, I typed Not unreasonable, and a moment later it changed itself to It's unreasonable!

There's a difference between being a moaning old bat not wanting children to make a noise at all, and being surrounded by noisy children rushing around in an unsafe environment where people are carrying tea pots / hot coffee etc.It's not unreasonable for customers to expect to hear their companions conversation while they sip lattes, is it? I have given up going to Costa Coffee for this reason.

You're right Marmite, it isn't a new phenomena. Some parents have always been better than others at keeping their little darlings entertained and focussed on something other than racing about causing mayhem.

I'm with Lucky and janeainsworth in thinking Janet Street Porter is a daft bat and a daft moaning bat at that. it's good to jingle on form as well - I share her joy that young mothers don't always have to sit at home on their own and can go out into public spaces (providing they can afford a cup of tea or coffee)

The problem is most definitely the parents. DD1 and I were having coffee in a cafe near where she lives in Surrey. There is a play area for little ones which is great as that keeps them apart from those of us (yes even 'doting grandmas'!) who want to enjoy our coffee in peace and maybe have an actual conversation ;-)

The play area is quite small and at the time some older children (DGS1 is 3) entered it and made a row, messed around and almost pushed DGS1 over! Luckily he wasn't hurt and just looked bewildered until we rescued him from what should have been a safe area.

Meanwhile the mother of the two older children, who carried on rushing around us all, yelling, sat adjacent to us completely wrapped up looking at her mobile phone.

I kept my mouth shut out of respect for DD1 (I would have gone over to that mother and said something if Id been there on my own) but after she and her obnoxious offspring left DD1 said how horrified she was by the children's behaviour and hadn't realised the mother was sitting close by.

Personally now I've got to the stage of being a GOW (Grumpy Old Woman!) I really appreciate being able to go to a coffee bar sometimes where there are no children or babies around, (especially as I am partially deaf and can often to hear what my companion is saying!) I quite understand the woman who owned the London cafe wanting to keep it child free.

While it is great for young mums to go out and meet other yummy mummies they should pay more attention to their children than they usually do. But from what DD1 tells me parents today don't discipline as we used to do, so kids don't learn appropriate behaviour.

Yes Jingle it was ever thus which is why I said it's not a new phenomenon . As JaneA says, it's up to the parents, many of whom do not care if their children are running amok and disturbing others who are out for a good meal and conversation. Our children often came out with us, the youngest one often disappeared under the table for a sleep, but they were expected to behave and be considerate to others around them which is not a lot to ask - is it?

Yes I agree, my two GC have always been perfectly well behaved and if one did get restless or crotchety when very small we would leave the cafe before things got noisy for all around us.