This will cause a hoo ha !

Advocating smacking is a rubbish argument. I never did nor has my daughter, neither did I shriek or shout. In my view if you resort to violence it is poor parenting.

It is fine to state what is OK or not in your home, but not to criticise another adult's choices about how they discipline their children.

Good grief predictive text? I mean Opps!

Pops it day don't ho with what it was to. I mean that some one gas pointed out that smacking your child is not illegal. I think if you were beating your child it would be !

Thank goodness someone has had the common sense to point this out!

As Trisher says, the question isn't whether or not to smack, but sounds to me more like being very cheeky, or insolent.
Most children go too far sometimes and need to be pulled up short.
Having been on my own for a while with 3 young children mine were all a bit out of hand when I met my current husband. He was great at discipling them. One of his methods was to write an essay on why it was wrong to do whatever it was that got them into trouble.
DD1 was cheeky sometimes and in her essay she wrote 'I'm too gobby and if I don't change I'll end up like Margaret Thatcher.'
They also had to earn their pocket money (by doing jobs etc.)

Even if they are staying with you and you are so stressed you consider smacking? Bury your feelings like that and they usually result in an outburst and argument, much better to discuss and express your feelings quietly.

I don't agree - you should not be talking to your the boys' Mum. If she broaches the topic, then throw in any positive ideas that you have, but otherwise it is not really your place to be t4elling another grown adult how they should behave.

But the real problem here is not really to smack or not to smack it is the lack of consistency revealed when the child asks what number the warning is. NanKate the talk you need to have with the boys' mum is why she isn't applying the 'one warning and then a sanction rule'. One of the things we were taught as trainee teachers was never threaten to do something you can't carry through, because children remember and your next threat will be ignored. It is hard work sometimes and you need real energy and commitment to carry things through. I don't think a smack would be any help in the long term. What might help is introducing 1 or 2 simple rules, for example "the living room is for quiet play or reading" and insisting that that is stuck to, sending a boy who charges in or begins to run about to another room or into the garden. Decide on the rules you want (not too many at first) and then insist on them together, making sure the boys understand what will happen. Good luck, it will be hard work but much more effective than a quick smack.

Actually, definitely better.

My two GSs occasionally get a quick whack on the wrist or the arm from me, when they're being a pain. Their mum doesn't bat an eyelid. Probably better than shouting or swearing.

It is not actually illegal in the UK to smack children. Here's what Law and Parents www.lawandparents.co.uk say on the matter:

It is not illegal for a parent to hit their child as long as the ‘smack’ amounts to ‘reasonable punishment’. There is, therefore, a difference between punishment and what can feasibly be termed ‘abuse’. Unreasonable punishment is classed as a smack that leaves a mark on the child, or the use of an implement to hit the child, such as a belt or cane. A parent can give another person consent to use reasonable punishment on their child, such as a babysitter or grandparent.

Just putting the record straight as one or two on here seem to think that it is illegal.

My dad once told us an interesting story that he had got from a psychologist at his college. Picture the scene in a children's shoe shop with a rocking horse for the waiting children to take rides on while they were waiting. Busy shop. Queue of kids waiting for a turn on the rocking horse, parent ineffective in 'persuading' the current long-riding child to get off, be 'nice', etc. Psychologist chap with his kids quietly approaches obstinate child on the rocking horse and whispers something in its ear, then walks away. Obstinate child dismounts.

Another parent who has watched the entire scene asks psychologist what he said that was so effective. Chap says: I told him that if he didn't get off I'd push him off.

Oof!

No, I'm not advocating that sort of thing either, just arguing in favour of non-damaging effectiveness, like those lion cubs getting cuffed when they break the eating order rules.

~~~

Another thing my dad used to say is that if a child's behaviour makes you angry, is unreasonable, might 'cause' someone else to be violent (see bullying stories above), the child needs to know this. This doesn't mean you can hit them, but you need to express your anger otherwise they grow up thinking they can drive other people mad with unacceptable behaviour and get away with it.

I don't think it is always wrong to hit someone. I'm extending the arena a bit here, not just talking about parents and children.

When I was twelve I hit someone who was bullying me at school with my heavy physics book. On her head. After she'd pulled my hair once too often. She never bothered me again and, in her own mother's words, later turned into a "really nice girl!"

My brother hit someone too during his teens. The guy had been taunting him for days about his school uniform, his satchel, etc, asking "Wanna fight?" Bro ignored him for days then one day, put his satchel down and knocked the bully over with a wallop to the jaw. Made sure the guy was allright, and walked away. Again, no more bother.

It's not always wrong to hit someone. Sometimes hitting is exactly what's needed, the most effective, if not the only, way of dealing with something.

Smacking your own children is not yet illegal in the UK, smacking somone else's child, however, is!

My daughter is definitely against smacking. She was laughing (in a guilty way) as she was telling me this. One day her six year old son had been very naughty and hit someone. As she told him 'it is wrong to hit someone', she was so exasperated with him she realised that she was hitting his hand! Oops.

NEVER EVER SMACK EVER

Don't go there!

DH was dropping GS1 off at school once and he and his brother were in full-on noisy mode. DH, being an old grump, shouted at them and they just laughed at him. He lost his temper and, just as they pulled up outside the school gate, he leaned across to GS1 who was in the front seat, and slapped his hands, just as he was unfastening his seat belt. At least that was his version/intent but there is some confusion as to where the slap landed.

GS1 goes into school in tears and tell teacher that granddad punched him. School protection goes into overdrive. Parents called into school - both teachers therefore causing chaos in their own schools.

Granddad hauled over coals by DD and DSiL, hurt and humiliated, relationship with GS1 in tatters. GS1 shocked as didn't expect this to be escalated to such a level.

I do understand what you are saying bags - when I look at some of the tortuous sanctions that my DC use, you wonder which is more damaging really. I am not advocating physical punishment, but some of the naughty step, hold you for 60 seconds, rationalising, withdrawal of privileges just seems to prolong the agony. It is well known that a punishment that is closely connected with the "crime" both in time and content is more effective - not being allowed to go out with your mates 3 days later just means the whole thing festers and is a long drawn out sore.

There is no doubt that some children are harder to manage than others and those of us with biddable children need to walk in the shoes of such parents for a bit before we pronounce! Also, some parents are better at the stern look and demeanour than others.

I do think that one of the problems now is that parents try to be friends with their children and this undermines their role when it comes to managing difficult behaviour.

Devil's advocate.

My siblings and I were occasionally smacked. We have all grown up into gentle, well-behaved citizens too. Just saying because it does not follow that an occasional sharp, even physical reprimand will cause a person to be ungentle and not well-behaved.

No, I am not advocating smacking children, just arguing an empirically proved point.

Other animals (lions, dogs, domestic cats) cuff their offspring when the offspring get out of line.

No, I am not advocating cuffing children, but I don't think it is an all evil, all wicked, all unreasonable thing for a worn out, frustrated parent to resort to. Yes, better parenting techniques exist but not everyone has these at their command at all times.

nankate, asked if anyone else ever felt tempted. Yup, sure did, though actually, kids who are used to reasonableness and rationality find a sharp No! pretty effective. They have to have learned that when you say No! you mean it though ?

I rationalized physical punishment when my children were born. From whichever way you look at it smacking is wrong. Wrong because you are taking advantage of being bigger and stronger. Wrong because if you have to resort to violence then you have mishandled the situation. Wrong because it teaches the child that violence is OK. Wrong because it is more about your feelings than the child's behaviour. Wrong because it is morally repugnant. Wrong because of your laziness in not thinking ahead and not second guessing the child's reaction/behaviour, has resulted in a situation.
My children were never smacked. I advised each head of school that I would not tolerate any form of physical punishment.
My children were gentle, well behaved pupils and grew up to be gentle well behaved citizens.

Lisalou what is a 'gentle' smack that made me smile is a smack ever considered gentle how do you grade it ? if it's gentle it's not exactly going to do a lot is it? Surely a smack is a smack and not acceptable When the boys are fighting do you deal less harshly with gentle kicks .....

Smacking has been made illegal for a reason it solves nothing, can teach violence is the answer to difficult situations, shows you are equally out of control as the child, and lastly is hoped to identify and procecute people who still beat children ( not sure this fully works)

I think it would really undermine their mum and risks causing friction which is why I suggested sitting down with DD/DIL to discuss her sanctions "so that you can back her up". It is awful for a young mum when her children play her up in front of granny and you would be doing nobody any favours to impose your own sanctions. Backing mum up will show the DGC that you both mean business.

I am really interested to know what their misdemeanours are and what other GP's limits are

Obviously not something a grandparent can do although I do agree with you that a light slap can be very effective. I sometimes feel that some of the non physical punishments some parents think up are really quite nasty. As a child I would much rather have had a smack than have treats cancelled or toys taken away.

If your DD is giving multiple warnings she is getting it wrong and the boys are seeing through it. One warning and then the naughty step or whatever.