I am 65yrs old and my mother is just turned 93. She is a very very determined and independant old lady and can be very difficult. She also has macular degeneration but seems to have held on to her licence. She drives locally all the time and has never had an accident other than bumps on her car, but
I last drove with her as a passenger about 3 yrs ago and I was PETRIFIED! She drove her tiny Kia at 80mph down the motorway and when she took the East sliproad out on to the A30, not the West, she backed up the slip road and did a 3 point turn to get off. I got out of the car and was furious and thoroughly frightened. She told me I was a hysteric!
I am going down to visit her next week and unfortunately looks as if my DH will have to take the car for a couple of days and leave me without it. My mother wants us to have a day out to a small rural town in Devon about an hour from where she lives, which is also in a country area but involves some motorway driving.
I suggested that I drove her car when I came down as it was quite a long way , but she wouldnt have it at all and said it was her car and she would drive and anyway I wasnt insured to drive it. I think I am as I have my own insurance, although it would be 3rd party only; her car is not valuable so if in the very unlikely event I did have a prang it wouldn't be a disaster. and its already got loads of little dents!
I really dont want to drive with her again as a passenger and am thinking of making an excuse to visit her at a later date when I have my car. And even then, she is likely to say that we take her car and she will drive.
Am I being unreasonable or a coward !?
Sorry Nfkdumpling but that is not a valid reason for the lady to be driving, the money saved on the upkeep and fuel of her car could be used to take taxis. The safety of other road users takes precedence over her independence I think.
My 95 year old aunt no longer drives, but she has told me that she was given a driving licence during the war and has never actually taken a test. This could be the case for your mum and she might be unaware of certain laws. The roads are much busier these days, and her own safety must be a worry
Just because young drivers can be dangerous (insurance companies know this very well) does not mean that we should disregard their dangerous behaviour, any more than we should dangerous driving on the part of elderly people - or indeed people of any age.
If someone's driving is clearly unsafe (and the OP is clear about that)then they should not be driving, whatever their age.
It is just tough shit that they will have their independence curtailed; a young driver who loses their licence might also perhaps lose their job - unfortunate for them, but if you are unsafe on the roads then you have to take the consequences.
A few years ago we were travelling into Nottingham, pulled up at a large busy roundabout, just about to pull out, and there was this old lady tootling around in her little car GOING THE WRONG WAY ROUND! We just looked open-mouthed at her!
My husband is disabled and some years ago now he was very reluctant to stop driving, although I thought him extremely unsafe. I said I would never travel with him again as a passenger, nor let him drive the children, if he wanted to kill himself then get on with it, but remember he could also kill someone else and could he live with that? Seemed to sink in.
Driving can be the only way older people can stay independent. Otherwise they'd be trapped in their homes.
This lady is probably fine to drive locally, but she obviously lacks motorway training and needs re-educating on speed awareness. She needs an update course - perhaps with a session on a skid pad as a reward!
mair I'm sort of with you on this. Yes, fil takes longer to decide whether a manoeuvre is safe and can be a bit erratic with speed but most of his driving is on slow country roads with little traffic and he has voluntarily stopped driving in the dark. He pops down to the village for his paper daily, drives to his club once a week and to the nearest supermarket to do his shopping on a Friday. He does insist on collecting us from the train but we then take him for lunch, suggest he has a bottle of beer and DH then drives the rest of the day! He has full possession of all his faculties and none of his medical conditions preclude him from driving. We live 150 miles away, his daughter is 40 miles away. Currently he is living in his own home, cooking and leading an independent life and his only outside help is a cleaner. Take his car away and he then becomes housebound and dependent on other people. I grant that the potential is there for an accident, but I've lost count of the number of times some young wannabe Lewis Hamilton has left me standing and I'm driving to the speed limit. They're accidents waiting to happen. It's a bit of a dilemma but I don't think it's necessarily a black/white decision.
Mair - it is not nonsense!
If we were to take any other law and say those who broke it should take their punishment, no-one would disagree. Just because a law is frequently broken does not make that law dispensable.
I might choose to ignore the law that says I should not steal. I am sure that if I were caught you would say that I should be punished.
Speed limits are no different. Driving at 80 mph is illegal and it is no less illegal if many people do it.
There is a tendency to regard many driving laws as irrelevant and to treat offenders as being less of a criminal than when other laws are broken. There is no logic to that and it is wholly wrong in principle.
People who drive at 80 mph are criminals - end of.
If the OP says that the driver is unsafe mair and she has been driven by her, then we have to accept that she is unsafe! I can't see why you are arguing against it since you have no idea how she drives. The OP asked what she should do about it, and I, and several others, have said that we feel that she should be not allowed to drive. As an aside, my car was written off by an elderly driver pootling around town who just drove into the side of it - and then I found that it wasn't the first time she'd done it!
Lucky girl
If you banned all drivers who drive at 80mph on the motorway then half of Britain's drivers would be banned! This is nonsense!
The three point turn was very bad, but again many many younger drivers have done bad things like this once or twice in their driving life, and got away with it, as she did.
Its because of this and the speeding she should be advised to stop motorway driving.
Anyone who isn't fit to drive, shouldn't
Its not clear cut who is 'fit to drive' and who isnt.
We pass our test and thats it.
Physically this woman is almost certainly fit to drive (though the eyesight situation needs to be confirmed).
Mentally we have been told she is sharp.
She is not a very good driver but if she were forty years younger nobody would be suggesting she be banned, even if she were disabled.
She presumably has no points on her licence either as many younger drivers do. Its ageism.
Anyone who isn't fit to drive, shouldn't. The law is there for a reason, and being very elderly is no more of an excuse than being young and reckless.
PS - this is not "ageist hysteria" but simple common sense and would apply whatever her age.
She should not be on the road, not just because of her physical limitations, but because she drives recklessly - 80 mph on motorway, 3 point turn on a slip road etc. This is not someone who recognises her limitations and only drives in familiar situations and on slower roads, which is what a lot of more insightful elderly people choose to do. This is a stubborn old lady who refuses to look reality in the eye and cares not one whit about the safety of other road users.
OP - you must be blunt!
the lady is 93, has MD ( I thought it was only Wet MD that had injections) a very debilitating eye condition
Which is being treated meaning she is having her eyes tested every time she goes to the hospital! They will inform the DVLA if she doesnt meet the standard. They will certainly not 'assume' the lady has stopped driving, though lying is possible I guess.
If the OP thinks she might be lying and claiming she has stopped she should accompany her to an appointment and can make sure the truth is told.
There is a bit of hysteria about the danger this woman might pose.
She probably does very little drivign and all local at low speed. She is considerably less of a risk than many young aggressive drivers who do far more driving and at speed.
There is a real lack of humanity being shown as well as a poor understanding of risk. The biggest risk this lady poses is to herself, but the risk to others is far far less than the majority of drivers pose, due to her low road usage. She probably drives to the shops a few times a week and is barely on the roads.
There is a good reason why older drivers have relatively cheap insurance - it is assessed by people who DO understand risk, not by people thrown into ageist hysteria by the very very rare nasty accidents caused by older drivers which make headlines in the tabloid press.
I am not advocating allowing the mother to continue driving irresponsibly at speed, which is why I think she should be told to stop motorway driving and night time driving, as well as checking that her eyesight is good enough if the OP suspects she may have lied to the hospital (I suspect though that they inform DVLA regardless of the person claiming to no longer drive).
If, in your opinion, she is truly a danger to others, then tell her so and refuse to drive with her. You can always hire a car while you are there for a few days out. then take action to have her prevented from endangering life by driving.
I don't think this is a situation to be kind, politically correct, or panda to 'ah well anyone can make a mistake we all have little bumps' the lady is 93, has MD ( I thought it was only Wet MD that had injections) a very debilitating eye condition, is in Topsy s words very frail, has problems with her neck and shoulders and has numerous dents and bumps in her car Drives on the motorway at 80 mph and stops to do a three point turn Terrifies her daughter when she's s passenger and some of you think that it's being ageist to consider taking some form of action to get her off the road
The mind boggles
Her GP and optometrist may not know she is still driving. Sometimes they make assumptions, other times patients lie.
I would go for a short drive with your mother, just in case her poor driving tree years ago was a one-off. We all make mistakes and have bad days. If, in your opinion, she is truly a danger to others, then tell her so and refuse to drive with her. You can always hire a car while you are there for a few days out.
Has she got a birthday coming up? Maybe an Experience day on an Advanced Driver course?
It's a problem too out of towns where there is little or no public transport, or if there is the roads are so bad that it can be painful being tossed around on an elderly bus (the newer ones with springs are usually saved for urban areas).
But it sounds as if the problem with the OPs mother is more that she thinks she has overall right of way on the road and woebetide anyone who gets in her way! I would refuse to drive with her. She sounds like a girl racer to me.
How do you know her doctor or optician have said nothing to her? Would she tell you if they had?
A doctor or optometrist has to inform the DVLA if someone fails to meet the driving standard.
Topsyturvy
If your mother is having treatment for her AMD then sh is having her eyesight tested everytime she goes to th clinic and her sight meets the driving requirements.
You say she is still sharp and 'frailty' and mild disability is NOT a disqualifaction to drive, many young severely disabled people drive, so yes you are being 'ageist'.
It does sound as if she isnt a very good driver (motorway incident) but many people are not, including young people. If she had an accident you do not know it would be her fault, and even if it was, she might have made the same error when tthirty years younger.
What would be a good idea is to persuade her to stop motorway driving, and driving at night (when the accident rate goes up anyway). Certainly refuse to accompany her on the motorway if she insists on driving.
Probably most of her driving is low speed low risk on local roads in the daytime. It could damage her quality of life seriously to prevent her doing this.
The DVLA site is very helpful and there is an A-Z list of conditions with advice if you are allowed to drive or not. Things have changed after the Glasgow bin lorry accident and we had to consult it recently for my daughter who had a single seizure 4 years ago was allowed to drive after a year by the DVLA as no abnormalities but she is not allowed to drive patients or staff around for 5 years (that is the change).
I also found out that doctors can advise people not to drive but cannot yet inform the DVLA except for a few named conditions. I think they are going to change that too. If it is written in medical notes that you have been advised not to drive then your insurance will be invalid.
There have been fatal accidents recently in my area involving very elderly drivers and I echo others points about how you would feel if children, young mothers or anyone was seriously injured or killed. It is a difficult decision to make.
Wether you go or not to visit you surely cannot keep quiet after having driven with her and realising she is a danger to all others on the road Could you really live with yourself if she caused an accident and killed someone or caused a pile up let's face it as much as you love your mum she's 93 and had her life but she could kill a young family or a child I believe it is now your duty to tell DVLA
I personally don't think ANY old person should be driving I think there should be a cut off age the same as there is a starting age and that would take pressure off children reporting perhaps have a retest at 75 and stop driving at 80
,topsyturvey of course it's not ageist. You have reasonable concerns based on your experience of your mother's driving.
Why not tell her she is dangerous on the roads and must stop driving? Then, when she refuses, put the onus on her to prove that she is safe, by consulting optician, doctor and DVLA.
If she is fine to drive, it wouldn't matter what your motives were for wanting to accompany her to an optician's appointment, as she would come out of it with flying colours anyway.
How do you know her doctor or optician have said nothing to her? Would she tell you if they had?
Think hard about a possible injury, or death, she could cause then take action.
Years ago my mother went to stay with her cousin, who was a diabetic. He met her at the station and they drove to his house. Halfway there she realised that he was now practically blind and was driving from memory!
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